Recently I made a blog post -- I can't recall if it was here or at my now defunct personal blog that I provided a copy of a post from the old Upstream mailing list that proved (along with other evidence) that the "man" posting as Hannover at the Führerbunker is, in fact, Jonnie A. Hargis.
(Here's a screenshot, by the way, as the coward has successfully had the proof page removed again.)
Read more!
This morning, predictably, I found this old thread, where in some other jackass, "jnovitz," mentions me, so Jonnie piles on by stating that I have been made a fool of at the fascist closet that he controls. As if.
By way of proof, he offers the same stale list of links where I'm supposedly "routed" or whatever, but he offers this a new link, entitled "Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage control."
Apparently the damage I'm attempting to control is, according to Hargis, "wild allegations" by survivors of impossible death rates at Auschwitz Birkenau. I'd written, "No credible figure has ever claimed that 20,000 or 40,000 people were gassed in a day."
But is that all I said? Of course not. My entire post is here. I noted, "Höss claimed during the Hungarian Aktion that 12,000 were being "processed" a day. This was with five gas chambers and 52 crematory muffles, but still they had to resort to pit burnings. That's the highest claim I've ever heard, and it strikes me as specious also."
So please explain something to me: If I'm attempting "damage control," then why would I say that the 12,000 claim made by Commandant Höss was specious?
Returning to the "damage control" post cited by Hargis, he quotes three Holocaust survivors (two basic unknowns and Primo Levi), and then writes, "So, are all these characters deemed 'not credible'?"
Yes, Jonnie, they are not credible.
Pitecki died in 1948. He was not an historian and never carried any exhaustive study on Auschwitz. He certainly was dead before any truly reliable numbers for Auschwitz were in circulation.
Rosa Robota, according to the link Hargis himself provides, died in Auschwitz. Again, she could not have engaged in any real study of the camp.
As for Levi, his glitch is a bit less easy to excuse. But there's a bit of sleight-of-hand (read: lying) that Hargis engages in, claiming that Levi made his claim in 1986, the alleged publication date of Survival in Auschwitz.
In reality, Survival in Auschwitz was published as Se questo è un uomo in 1947 -- a mere two years after Auschwitz was liberated. And one would know, if they had read Levi's subsequent book, The Awakening, that he didn't make it back to Italy for over a year. So perhaps we may cut Levi some slack for an error made in 1947?
The really intriguing thing is that Hargis cites p. 388 in the book as where Levi wrote this. There is no p. 388 in Survival in Auschwitz; it runs a lean 187 pages. I even did a search on Google Books and Amazon.com for this phrase in the book and couldn't find it. Really funny is that Robert Faurisson makes the same quote here but also quotes a nonexistent page (pp. 201-202) and he doesn't even offer a footnote for an edition for us to check.
This is very likely the edition of Levi that Hargis believes he is citing. (Can you believe this guy works in a library?). The year is correct and publisher, but p. 388 would fall in the "Afterword : the author's answers to his readers "questions": p. 375-397."
So if Levi actually made this claim, he didn't even make it in Survival in Auschwitz, but rather in response to a question from a reader. What year? We don't know, of course, because Hargis never tells us, and -- alas! -- the book is out of print.
Monday, August 06, 2007
Saturday, July 28, 2007
This is a serious case of ... well, "Revisionism"
In his CODOH post of Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:08 pm, my old friend "Haldan", aka "k0nsl" aka Jonathan Andersson, committed the imprudence of mentioning my name.
While I usually let the Cesspit lunatics spout their boring nonsense as they please, when they mention me in their babblings I take a closer look at the same, and that’s what I’m going to do now regarding Mr. Andersson’s post.
Read more!
Andersson starts out as follows:
I don’t remember where on the RODOH forum Andersson asked those silly questions, and it would be too much of an effort to roam through old threads trying to find the one he may have been referring to, if existing. (Typically dishonest "Revisionist" that he is, Andersson of course doesn’t give his readers the opportunity to check his claims by providing a link or a thread title. Not that anybody on the Cesspit, where the name "RODOH" cannot even be spelled out, would be likely to check, of course.) But if the bugger asked such questions, the likely answer was that
a) the photograph shows but one small section of one out of several mass graves in which the bodies at Treblinka were buried, and allows for no estimate about the size of the grave it shows let alone that of any other grave; and
b) if the bodies are mostly not visible (there are arguably three at the top of the grave that can be made out), this is because they are covered by wooden planks and what looks like tarpaulin sheets, which may have been related to an effort on the part of the camp staff to stretch the capacity of the mass graves by "top down" burning, or (see the comment on this site) to an experiment on whether the bodies could be effectively burned inside the mass graves.
If this answer was not "reasonable" enough for Mr. Andersson, that’s because his criterion of reasonability is a rather peculiar one that he shares with most if not all fellow "Revisionists": whatever fits his preconceived notions is necessarily "reasonable", and what does not fit those notions can never be.
After this instructive introduction, Mr. Andersson turns to downright lying when he writes the following:
That’s about as thick a straw-man as I have ever seen. Neither Nick, nor Andrew, nor I maintain that the number of victims of Treblinka was necessarily as high as 900,000 (the documentary evidence rather points to an order of magnitude of 750,000 to 800,000, and the very site that Andersson's brother-in-spirit Jonni "Hannover" Hargis started out making a fuss about states that "Jews from the Polish Districts of Warsaw, Radom, Bialystok and Lublin as well as others from Theresienstadt concentration camp, Macedonia and the Reich comprised he nearly 750,000 people who would die in the gas chambers of Treblinka between July 1942 and April 1943"), and neither of us has claimed that the bodies of the victims, insofar as they were not incinerated right after the killing during the later stages of Treblinka’s operation, were buried in one single mass grave. My take on the number, size and capacity of the mass graves at Treblinka is explained in my articles Polish investigations of the Treblinka killing site were a complete failure … and Videos, a must see!, among others.
The next straw-man dished up by Andersson is just as mendacious:
Actually the bigmouth would have a hard time finding a statement where either Nick, Andrew or I ever invoked this photograph, which like all photographs can but illustrate a small fraction of the events in question and constitutes no more than one out of many elements of evidence, as "evidence enough" for the mass murder committed at Treblinka. I actually don’t remember having addressed that photograph except in the context of "Revisionist" ramblings about it, like in my RODOH posts # 8582 and # 8588. Evidence to the mass killings at Treblinka consists of
• the depositions of numerous eyewitnesses, including and especially former members of the SS staff testifying or on trial for their crimes before West German courts,
• documentary evidence that allows for reconstructing the deportations to Treblinka and shows Treblinka to have been a final destination for deportees taken there, a place where people were taken in order to be destroyed and a place from which an unbearable stench of corpses emanated and befouled the air,
• the physical evidence discussed in my above-mentioned articles and
• demographic evidence showing that none but a few dozen escapees from among the hundreds of thousands of deportees were ever seen or heard of again after entering Treblinka.
As to the claimed absence of human remains, Andersson should start doing something about his ignorance by reading this article, which is based on sources quoted by "Revisionist" guru Carlo Mattogno.
The continuation of Andersson’s straw-man:
is just plain infantile and yet another indication of the inability of "Revisionists" to understand that context is the name of the game: the picture in question is only known to show a part of a Treblinka mass grave because it is part of an album of photos taken by Treblinka’s second-in-command Kurt Franz, who in turn described the mass killing and body disposal procedure at Treblinka at his trial before a West German court (in which he was sentenced to lifetime imprisonment), and whose description is corroborated by those of other eyewitnesses and further evidence independent of him. Without this context, the photograph in question would be completely meaningless, and even within that context it is just one out of many exhibits, which provides no meaningful information except in connection with other exhibits.
Then Andersson opens his mouth real wide:
I would love to see the fellow trying to show but a few examples out of the "endless list" he claims. As I pointed out in this article, only a fraction of the mass graves containing victims of Stalin’s purges or penal camps, of crimes committed by Soviet soldiers against German civilians in 1944/45 or of postwar expulsion atrocities against ethnic Germans in Poland, Czechoslovakia and other countries, have so far been found. On the other hand, the former occupied territories of the Soviet Union are full of Nazi-made mass graves investigated by Soviet state commissions, whose findings are largely corroborated by evidence independent of the Soviets, as in the examples mentioned in Nick’s article Mass Graves in the Polesia and in my article Neither the Soviets nor the Poles have found any mass graves with even only a few thousand bodies …. Hundreds of such mass graves have lately been located again in the course of the Yahad in Unum project.
Finally comes the icing on Andersson’s cake:
No, Mr. Andersson. It’s just a photo showing a small fraction of one of the several mass graves in which, as becomes apparent from a multitude of eyewitness, documentary, physical and demographic evidence, hundreds of thousands of people murdered at Treblinka were buried before they were disinterred and incinerated in order to reduce the amount of incriminating evidence. It is but one of the many pieces that make up the puzzle of evidence to the Treblinka mass killings – nothing more, and nothing less.
Andersson ends his sermon as follows:
Yeah, just picture the inane trash that folks like Andersson are capable of uttering in all seriousness. I would consider it impossible that such nuts as Andersson are in existence, were it not for the clear evidence that they actually do exist.
While I usually let the Cesspit lunatics spout their boring nonsense as they please, when they mention me in their babblings I take a closer look at the same, and that’s what I’m going to do now regarding Mr. Andersson’s post.
Read more!
Andersson starts out as follows:
Hannover wrote:
This is absolutely embarrassing.
from:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps/Camps/TreblinkaEng.html
This is supposed to be a mass grave that held 900,000 Jews at Treblinka.
It sure is. I tried to ask Nick Terry, Roberto and I believe even Andrew E. Mathis about this strange "mass grave". I said, all I see is wooden planks and some form of sheet material - "where are the bodies, where are the human remains and how could so many corpses fit in such a small grave?" No reasonable response from neither of those self-proclaimed Holocaust Experts. None.
I don’t remember where on the RODOH forum Andersson asked those silly questions, and it would be too much of an effort to roam through old threads trying to find the one he may have been referring to, if existing. (Typically dishonest "Revisionist" that he is, Andersson of course doesn’t give his readers the opportunity to check his claims by providing a link or a thread title. Not that anybody on the Cesspit, where the name "RODOH" cannot even be spelled out, would be likely to check, of course.) But if the bugger asked such questions, the likely answer was that
a) the photograph shows but one small section of one out of several mass graves in which the bodies at Treblinka were buried, and allows for no estimate about the size of the grave it shows let alone that of any other grave; and
b) if the bodies are mostly not visible (there are arguably three at the top of the grave that can be made out), this is because they are covered by wooden planks and what looks like tarpaulin sheets, which may have been related to an effort on the part of the camp staff to stretch the capacity of the mass graves by "top down" burning, or (see the comment on this site) to an experiment on whether the bodies could be effectively burned inside the mass graves.
If this answer was not "reasonable" enough for Mr. Andersson, that’s because his criterion of reasonability is a rather peculiar one that he shares with most if not all fellow "Revisionists": whatever fits his preconceived notions is necessarily "reasonable", and what does not fit those notions can never be.
After this instructive introduction, Mr. Andersson turns to downright lying when he writes the following:
I have that discussion saved somewhere and will look it through sometime. Very embarrassing! However, all three of the gentlemen stuck by the insane claim that its a mass grave which held 900,000 Jews.
That’s about as thick a straw-man as I have ever seen. Neither Nick, nor Andrew, nor I maintain that the number of victims of Treblinka was necessarily as high as 900,000 (the documentary evidence rather points to an order of magnitude of 750,000 to 800,000, and the very site that Andersson's brother-in-spirit Jonni "Hannover" Hargis started out making a fuss about states that "Jews from the Polish Districts of Warsaw, Radom, Bialystok and Lublin as well as others from Theresienstadt concentration camp, Macedonia and the Reich comprised he nearly 750,000 people who would die in the gas chambers of Treblinka between July 1942 and April 1943"), and neither of us has claimed that the bodies of the victims, insofar as they were not incinerated right after the killing during the later stages of Treblinka’s operation, were buried in one single mass grave. My take on the number, size and capacity of the mass graves at Treblinka is explained in my articles Polish investigations of the Treblinka killing site were a complete failure … and Videos, a must see!, among others.
The next straw-man dished up by Andersson is just as mendacious:
A mass grave of wooden planks and sheets spread here and there is evidence enough for those gentlemen that the Germans did away with 900,000 Jews - yet can not explain why there are no human remains.
Actually the bigmouth would have a hard time finding a statement where either Nick, Andrew or I ever invoked this photograph, which like all photographs can but illustrate a small fraction of the events in question and constitutes no more than one out of many elements of evidence, as "evidence enough" for the mass murder committed at Treblinka. I actually don’t remember having addressed that photograph except in the context of "Revisionist" ramblings about it, like in my RODOH posts # 8582 and # 8588. Evidence to the mass killings at Treblinka consists of
• the depositions of numerous eyewitnesses, including and especially former members of the SS staff testifying or on trial for their crimes before West German courts,
• documentary evidence that allows for reconstructing the deportations to Treblinka and shows Treblinka to have been a final destination for deportees taken there, a place where people were taken in order to be destroyed and a place from which an unbearable stench of corpses emanated and befouled the air,
• the physical evidence discussed in my above-mentioned articles and
• demographic evidence showing that none but a few dozen escapees from among the hundreds of thousands of deportees were ever seen or heard of again after entering Treblinka.
As to the claimed absence of human remains, Andersson should start doing something about his ignorance by reading this article, which is based on sources quoted by "Revisionist" guru Carlo Mattogno.
The continuation of Andersson’s straw-man:
Actually, I find it all a bit hilarious; a tiny picture, some wooden planks and a bit of yarn here and there, and you've got a "mass grave" of Jews.
is just plain infantile and yet another indication of the inability of "Revisionists" to understand that context is the name of the game: the picture in question is only known to show a part of a Treblinka mass grave because it is part of an album of photos taken by Treblinka’s second-in-command Kurt Franz, who in turn described the mass killing and body disposal procedure at Treblinka at his trial before a West German court (in which he was sentenced to lifetime imprisonment), and whose description is corroborated by those of other eyewitnesses and further evidence independent of him. Without this context, the photograph in question would be completely meaningless, and even within that context it is just one out of many exhibits, which provides no meaningful information except in connection with other exhibits.
Then Andersson opens his mouth real wide:
In the meantime, there are a endless list of real mass graves where the victims are German, Polish, Latvian and other Europeans, everywhere - easily identified as such!
I would love to see the fellow trying to show but a few examples out of the "endless list" he claims. As I pointed out in this article, only a fraction of the mass graves containing victims of Stalin’s purges or penal camps, of crimes committed by Soviet soldiers against German civilians in 1944/45 or of postwar expulsion atrocities against ethnic Germans in Poland, Czechoslovakia and other countries, have so far been found. On the other hand, the former occupied territories of the Soviet Union are full of Nazi-made mass graves investigated by Soviet state commissions, whose findings are largely corroborated by evidence independent of the Soviets, as in the examples mentioned in Nick’s article Mass Graves in the Polesia and in my article Neither the Soviets nor the Poles have found any mass graves with even only a few thousand bodies …. Hundreds of such mass graves have lately been located again in the course of the Yahad in Unum project.
Finally comes the icing on Andersson’s cake:
But here we are looking at a microscopical picture of a small hole with some wooden planks in it, and that is evidence of murder by the Germans, of 900,000 thousand Jews - almost a million people.
No, Mr. Andersson. It’s just a photo showing a small fraction of one of the several mass graves in which, as becomes apparent from a multitude of eyewitness, documentary, physical and demographic evidence, hundreds of thousands of people murdered at Treblinka were buried before they were disinterred and incinerated in order to reduce the amount of incriminating evidence. It is but one of the many pieces that make up the puzzle of evidence to the Treblinka mass killings – nothing more, and nothing less.
Andersson ends his sermon as follows:
Picture that.
Impossible.
Yeah, just picture the inane trash that folks like Andersson are capable of uttering in all seriousness. I would consider it impossible that such nuts as Andersson are in existence, were it not for the clear evidence that they actually do exist.
Thursday, July 26, 2007
I Smell the Wood Burning
Jonnie Hargis, the UCLA library assistant who posts to the Führerbunker as "Hannover," took some time out from his schedule on July 26 to "think," as he put it, offering this steaming pile of pony loaf, begging the question of what goes on in Hargis's head when he doesn't have "thoughts."
It brought to mind this list of 10 traits of conspiracy theorists by Donna Ferentes, which was I think originally drafted to describe 9/11 "troofers."
Read more!
Consider the mind of a Holocaust denier, though, with regard to these traits:
It brought to mind this list of 10 traits of conspiracy theorists by Donna Ferentes, which was I think originally drafted to describe 9/11 "troofers."
Read more!
Consider the mind of a Holocaust denier, though, with regard to these traits:
- Arrogance: So I think anyone familiar with his "work" will agree that Hargis is arrogant. So is Fritz Berg. So is Robert Faurisson. And David Irving. I've met very few humble Holocaust deniers. Granted, I'm not a humble person myself. But is the average normative Holocaust historian quite so arrogant? I know a couple of prominent historians personally. Are some arrogant? Sure. Is it an overwhelming trait of Holocaust historians? No.
Note how Ferentes typifies this arrogance. No Holocaust historian I know or have read has ever defined him- or herself as a "truth-seeker." There have to be at least half a dozen variations on that name as handles at the Führerbunker. - Relentlessness. I think this is typified best by how often something like the "Auschwitz four-million gambit" is used by deniers, no matter how often it's pointed out how easily disproved it is.
- Inability to answer questions. Read here and see how Hargis refuses to answer a simple yes-or-no question.
- Fondness for certain stock phrases. Do yourself a search on "Holocaust industry" at the Fuhrerbunker sometime.
- Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. A sad example is found here. What our little friend seems not to understand is that there is no leap in logic when you have Adolf Eichmann testifying that code words were, in fact, used.
- Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Writes Ferentes, "Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources." Find me a tenured U.S. historian who denies the Holocaust.
- Inability to withdraw. See a key example here.
- Leaping to conclusions. Again, from Ferentes: "Small inconsistencies in the account of an event, small unanswered questions, small problems in timing of differences in procedure from previous events of the same kind are all more than adequate to declare the 'official' account clearly and definitively discredited." The consistencies in eyewitness testimony far outnumber inconsistencies and the inconsistencies are much smaller in magnitude than the similarities.
- Using previous conspiracies as evidence to support their claims. Take, e.g., Don Heddesheimer's claim that it was claimed that six million Jews were killed in World War I. But no such claim was ever made. Oh, well.
- It's always a conspiracy.
A person who always says the same thing, and says it over and over again is, of course, commonly considered to be, if not a monomaniac, then at very least, a bore.Yes, indeed.
Friday, June 22, 2007
Just so it's absolutely double clear
'PotPie' comments over yonder
Did that. Did that both times in fact. :-)
He may not have noticed that you have to enter the security code in the box before your registration will actually be entered. I forgot to do that the first time and I got an email verification of my registration but it did not actually register me. I had to start over and voila, here I am
Did that. Did that both times in fact. :-)
Just so there's no misunderstanding
On the assumption that one moderator doesn't know what the other moderator(s) might be doing, I re-registered.
Let's see how long it takes them this time to act as if I didn't.
Let's see how long it takes them this time to act as if I didn't.
To: holocaustcontroversies@yahoo.co.uk
Subject: Welcome to The CODOH Revisionist Forum Forums
From: noreply@codoh.com Add to Address Book
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:53:04 -0400
Welcome to The CODOH Revisionist Forum Forums
Please keep this email for your records. Your account information is as
follows:
----------------------------
Username: nickterry
Password: ************
----------------------------
Your account is currently inactive, the administrator of the board will
need to activate it before you can log in. You will receive another
email when this has occured.
Please do not forget your password as it has been encrypted in our
database and we cannot retrieve it for you. However, should you forget your
password you can request a new one which will be activated in the same
way as this account.
Thank you for registering.
--
Thanks, Moderator
Guys.... are you really not speaking to each other?
As one of my friends just said to me, 'Oh my freaking God!'
Over at CODOH, 'Germania' posts the following
To which 'Moderator1' replies
OH RLY?
The only thing altered above is the password, which is displayed in the email. I could even give that one up as it wasn't anything personal, in case these guys need to have a screen-shot thrust under their noses.
Now, shall we try again, Moderator1?
Over at CODOH, 'Germania' posts the following
speaking about debate, is true that terry does not allowed to join the forum?
To which 'Moderator1' replies
Terry has never registered.
M1
OH RLY?
To:
holocaustcontroversies@yahoo.co.uk
Subject:
Welcome to The CODOH Revisionist Forum Forums
From:
noreply@codoh.com Add to Address Book
Date:
Fri, 15 Jun 2007 05:41:32 -0400
#message46501081946890178977401710 { overflow:auto; visibility:hidden }
Welcome to The CODOH Revisionist Forum Forums
Please keep this email for your records. Your account information is as
follows:
----------------------------
Username: Nick Terry
Password: ***************
----------------------------
Your account is currently inactive, the administrator of the board will
need to activate it before you can log in. You will receive another
email when this has occured.
Please do not forget your password as it has been encrypted in our
database and we cannot retrieve it for you. However, should you forget your
password you can request a new one which will be activated in the same
way as this account.
Thank you for registering.
--
Thanks, Moderator
* Note *
The only thing altered above is the password, which is displayed in the email. I could even give that one up as it wasn't anything personal, in case these guys need to have a screen-shot thrust under their noses.
Now, shall we try again, Moderator1?
Thursday, June 21, 2007
CODOH Moderators, You Have 24 Hours
On Friday afternoon I registered with the CODOH Revisionist Forum, under my own name, purely so I could post a factual correction since one member (who also posts at RODOH) was making remarks about me.
In contrast to all the other members of this blog's team, I've never once set foot in CODOH forum, yet six days later there is still no follow-up email to confirm that the moderators there have activated my account. The automatic email came through, but after that, zip. Since the forum is attached to the Committee for the Open Debate of the Holocaust, one might think they'd welcome every new recruit they could get, but apparently not.
Why, even today, the most active poster at CODOH, 'Hannover', posted the following:
So, CODOH moderators, here's the deal. I'd like to have my registration activated. I don't think that's an unfair thing to ask since however you spin it, I have absolutely no history over on your forum. I haven't broken the rules on your forum because you haven't even given me the chance to. I don't intend to anyway, I'd just like to make the odd post from time to time.
Since it's been six days, I think another 24 hours are in order. After that, well, everyone can draw their own conclusions about what CODOH really means.
In contrast to all the other members of this blog's team, I've never once set foot in CODOH forum, yet six days later there is still no follow-up email to confirm that the moderators there have activated my account. The automatic email came through, but after that, zip. Since the forum is attached to the Committee for the Open Debate of the Holocaust, one might think they'd welcome every new recruit they could get, but apparently not.
Why, even today, the most active poster at CODOH, 'Hannover', posted the following:
which is pretty remarkable, since currently there is absolutely no one who accepts the "standard storyline" over at CODOH. More's the pity, since there are many at CODOH who utter some basic factual errors concerning this subject, and there is no one around to set them straight.I even salute those who promote the standard storyline at this forum
So, CODOH moderators, here's the deal. I'd like to have my registration activated. I don't think that's an unfair thing to ask since however you spin it, I have absolutely no history over on your forum. I haven't broken the rules on your forum because you haven't even given me the chance to. I don't intend to anyway, I'd just like to make the odd post from time to time.
Since it's been six days, I think another 24 hours are in order. After that, well, everyone can draw their own conclusions about what CODOH really means.
Wednesday, June 20, 2007
Guest Columnist
Ladies and Gentlemen, Scott Smith of Real Open Debate on the Holocaust.
Read more!
Read more!
I used to write book reviews for Germar Rudolf's Revisionist before his rendition to the Bundestablishment, and I wrote a couple of movie reviews for Ted O' Keefe before the JHR got closed down.
I started the RODOH message forum back in 2003.
www.rodoh.us
Basicaly I've known Dr. Mathis for a few years now. I used to post on the old CODOH bbs and he was a reliable opponent.
Then the CODOH board was shut down and some of us started our own message boards. I didn't like the censorship policies at Hannover's "Revisionist Forum" so I started my own, called "Real Open-Debate On the Holocaust," since the CODOH bbs was defunct. I didn't invent the title but I find it ironic and even a tribute to Bradley Smith's ideas and what CODOH stands for: Open Debate.
Even though Andrew Mathis is vulgar and no friend of Revisionism or Revisionists, we have an understanding and a mutual respect, and for freedom-of-speech. I let him speak his mind on my forum and he hasn't disappointed me yet. Real debate lets the opposition have its fair say.
This has made me unpopular with some Revisionists. CODOH eventually acquired Hannover's forum as its own, and in addition to banning the opposition I am now banned from using Hannover's, now CODOH's, message board because I allow Mathis to post on mine. The two have a mutual vendetta going on.
Other than refusing to try to conceal Hannover's real name, it is not true that I collect personal information about Revisionists to make it public, which is what is said about me. Some of the anti-Revisionists that do post on my forum regularly might do so in their own personal blogs, however, which I have nothing to do with, and no control over.
Long story short--I think Dr. Mathis is quite serious in debating Hannover. Back in 2003-04 he and Paul Grubach were going to debate, but they couldn't agree on a format. Mathis did not want it published in the Revisionist and Grubach didn't want to publish it online at RODOH. So it fell though.
However, Dr. Robert Countess stepped up to the plate and agreed to debate Mathis. Eventually Mathis declined but he did arrange to have another anti-Revisionist take his place, Steve Mock, who did a fine job indeed. This was called the "Scholars' Debate" at RODOH and everybody said that it couldn't be done. Only a couple of Revisionists agreed to help me.
It turns out that Dr. Countess didn't contribute a lot and in November of 2004 told me that he was terminally ill and dropped out. That was devastating news but I was planning on continuting myself to wrap it up but then I was hit by a car while riding my bicycle home from work. Anyway, the effort was a good learning experience for me but I'm not 100 percent satisfied with our performance. One flaw in my plan was that our moderation panel couldn't get along in setting the rules (especially as to length) and I had to abandon that hat and join the Revisionist team myself or nothing would have happened.
You can read the Scholars' Debate here if you are interested:
http://p102.ezboard.com/frodohforumfrm23.showMessage?topicID=2.topic
I'm also not pleased that so many Revisionists refused to help debate when they have been making such noises about precisely this for so long.
The best way to prove Mathis wrong is for Hannover (and any Revisionists that want to help him) to engage Dr. Mathis in the challenge. Mathis is bending over backwards to make it fair. Yes, there is a personal element at work here, but Dr. Countess wasn't afraid to help the Revisionist cause.
I really think that Revisionists ought to consider this one. I don't want to get involved myself this time but I would be willing to host the matter--although Hannover may not agree to that aspect since there is some bad blood between us on account of my being banned at his forum. Dr. Mathis is flexible on the terms and it need not involve RODOH at all.
Feel free to forward this as you wish.
Best,
Scott Smith
Monday, June 18, 2007
Sergey the Goebbels Guy, or a Commie loon for a change
It's that Katyn issue again.
Today I've discovered old comments left by someone called "haisanlu" who tried to defend Grover Furr and Mukhin at seek-the-truth-serve-the-people.blogspot.com
Most messages seem to have been deleted from that blog, but here's Google cache. He calls me one of the "Goebbels Guys", "The anti-Russian Katyn Guys", etc. Here's his poem:
Read more!
Haisanlu focuses on my rejection of the alleged "Schellenberg interrogation". He repeats Furr's claim that, according to Doerries, some of the records have disappeared, but doesn't even give the page. But the main question is: who cares? If anything is missing, there is no evidence whatsoever, that these missing records contained anything about Katyn, much less Schellenberg's confession.
Here we have someone who rejects lots of authentic documents and testimonies proving that Katyn was NKVD's deed on Stalin's order in favor of allegedly unavailable records with unknown content! That's even loonier than Holocaust denial.
Haisanlu writes:
As for the question of Mukhin being antisemitic or not, in his books and articles he more than often uses the word "zhid", which is translated as "kike". True, he claims he doesn't mean Jews but rather some sort of parasitic social category. But the very choice of words betrays his true feelings.
In the library section on the site of his newspaper you'll find quite a lot of hardcore antisemitic literature, like "A note on ritual murders". Possibly, Mukhin himself doesn't believe in this crap, but he does keep it online.
Finally, Haisanlu wants to sway us with this powerful argument
Haisanlu also presents us with an outline of Mukhin's earlier book, which Western Holocaust deniers should find instructive. Mukhin's main positive argument is that absence of several thousands Polish POWs in internal Soviet documents dealing with POWs since spring of 1940 was caused not by their death, but by their change of status from POWs into prisoners. Except both Burdenko Commission report and internal NKGB report about preliminary investigation of the Katyn case always call them POWs. Moreover, the alleged "authentic" contemporary documents (like Menshagin's notebook or Vetoshnikov's report) quoted in these reports also designate the Poles as POWs. Sorry, that canard is dead.
Haisanlu then repeats all the bullshit Mukhin wrote, including his erroneous arguments about Katyn documents. E.g. Haisanlu says that the letter of Beria was dated 5.3.40, but it wasn't. There is "agreed" ("za") on the document, but Haisanlu says that there isn't. He says that Kaganovich's and Kalinin's signatures on the document are forged, because they were absent from that Politburo meeting. But exactly because they were absent, there are no signatures by Kalinin and Kaganovich - only notes by a secretary that they agreed with the decision. He says that on Shelepin's letter there is no registration number and no signature, except there is both number and a signature. Etc., etc., etc. The guy obviously doesn't know what he is writing about - just like Mukhin.
Today I've discovered old comments left by someone called "haisanlu" who tried to defend Grover Furr and Mukhin at seek-the-truth-serve-the-people.blogspot.com
Most messages seem to have been deleted from that blog, but here's Google cache. He calls me one of the "Goebbels Guys", "The anti-Russian Katyn Guys", etc. Here's his poem:
Goebbels GuysTake that, Romanov!!!
Poem dedicated to Y I Mukhin
Defending Goebbels Lies is the task of anti- communist guys
The anti-Russian Katyn Guys - Sergei Romanov being one
Well they were having so much fun
That Goebbels himself smiled
Until a a man called Mukhin gave them all a surprise
Because 20 million dead Russians said don't bend your knee to Nazi lies
Mukhin heard this and his "Katyn Detective" nailed the lies of these Goebbels Guys
For that Mukhin wins the seeker after truth prize
Now Goebbels is feeling down and wears a frown
For Mukhin kicked him in the balls
He told the truth to us all !
There will be no 21st Century Goebbels Pall
Thanks Mukhin from us all
Read more!
Haisanlu focuses on my rejection of the alleged "Schellenberg interrogation". He repeats Furr's claim that, according to Doerries, some of the records have disappeared, but doesn't even give the page. But the main question is: who cares? If anything is missing, there is no evidence whatsoever, that these missing records contained anything about Katyn, much less Schellenberg's confession.
Here we have someone who rejects lots of authentic documents and testimonies proving that Katyn was NKVD's deed on Stalin's order in favor of allegedly unavailable records with unknown content! That's even loonier than Holocaust denial.
Haisanlu writes:
There are also personal attacks against Mukhin saying that he associates with anti semites - well I think you should read a summary in English of the Mukhin's Katyn Detective of 1995 to understand the basis of Mukhin's criticisms of the Russians who did it theory and see what Y I Mukhin's thinks of anti semites in his own words. This might also help you make up your own mind about the veracity of Mr Sergei Romanov.Except if you search my article for "semit", you'll come up empty. What I do is show a photo of Mukhin in company of well-known Holocaust deniers Graf and Mattogno - and Mukhin is a denier himself. This should help you make up your own mind about the veracity of Haisanlu.
As for the question of Mukhin being antisemitic or not, in his books and articles he more than often uses the word "zhid", which is translated as "kike". True, he claims he doesn't mean Jews but rather some sort of parasitic social category. But the very choice of words betrays his true feelings.
In the library section on the site of his newspaper you'll find quite a lot of hardcore antisemitic literature, like "A note on ritual murders". Possibly, Mukhin himself doesn't believe in this crap, but he does keep it online.
Finally, Haisanlu wants to sway us with this powerful argument
I also give you an extract from Goebbel's Diary entry 8th May 1943 " unfortunately German ammunition has been found in the graves at Katyn .. it is essential that that this incident remains top secret. If it were to come to the knowledge of the enemy the whole Katyn affair would be dropped "Um. Hello? Sure Goebbels would be concerned about the German ammo found in the graves, because common sense would've told him that this would give the Soviets a very great weapon against the German claims, and Goebbels' propaganda campaign would lose some force. As we know, though, the Germans did not hide the fact that they had found German ammo in the graves. And if Goebbels knew all along that it was the Germans who did it, why was the find such a shock to him?
Again reading Y.I.Mukhin we can see why Goebbels was so concerned about the German munitions found at Katyn.
Haisanlu also presents us with an outline of Mukhin's earlier book, which Western Holocaust deniers should find instructive. Mukhin's main positive argument is that absence of several thousands Polish POWs in internal Soviet documents dealing with POWs since spring of 1940 was caused not by their death, but by their change of status from POWs into prisoners. Except both Burdenko Commission report and internal NKGB report about preliminary investigation of the Katyn case always call them POWs. Moreover, the alleged "authentic" contemporary documents (like Menshagin's notebook or Vetoshnikov's report) quoted in these reports also designate the Poles as POWs. Sorry, that canard is dead.
Haisanlu then repeats all the bullshit Mukhin wrote, including his erroneous arguments about Katyn documents. E.g. Haisanlu says that the letter of Beria was dated 5.3.40, but it wasn't. There is "agreed" ("za") on the document, but Haisanlu says that there isn't. He says that Kaganovich's and Kalinin's signatures on the document are forged, because they were absent from that Politburo meeting. But exactly because they were absent, there are no signatures by Kalinin and Kaganovich - only notes by a secretary that they agreed with the decision. He says that on Shelepin's letter there is no registration number and no signature, except there is both number and a signature. Etc., etc., etc. The guy obviously doesn't know what he is writing about - just like Mukhin.
Thursday, June 14, 2007
Beyond even Chutzpah
In his post of Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:34 am on the CODOH "Revisionist" forum, Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis, one of the lowliest pieces of garbage in the "Revisionist" cesspool, treats newcomer "Potpie" to yet another session of his hollow and cowardly breastbeating:
One wonders why, if I "never had a chance" against "Revisionist" brilliance, poor Hargis found it necessary to delete all those posts of mine, which I have collected on this thread, among others, and eventually ban me from his lovely place.
Or why, if "Revisionists" have such superior arguments, so few of them show up for real open debate on uncensored boards like RODOH and the biggest mouth of them all, Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis, never dares to leave his warm and cozy Führerbunker.
Not all "Revisionists" gratefully swallow "Hannover" Hargis’ mendacious bragging, however. Some of them have realized what the fellow is all about. One of these is Mr. Wilfried Heink aka "neugierig", who in his RODOH post 18-Dec-2006 19:29 wrote the following:
Not that Mr. Heink’s arguments are usually any better than those of his brothers-in-spirit, though he is one of the few "Revisionists" who at least tries to do some homework, but the above was an unexpected display of common sense for which I duly congratulated the old man.
A word now to the unhappy "PotPie", who claims that the HC blog’s contributors are "obsessed by this board and those who post here": apart from the amusement value of one or the other particular instructive showpiece of "Revisionist" imbecility, whether in quoted scripture from some vaunted guru or the CODOH yelpers’ own "wisdom", the only reason for one of us to pay any attention to the CODOH cesspit and its sorry inhabitants is their occasional mouthing off about him. That aside, we couldn’t care less about what these candy-ass losers write.
Ah, and in case anyone is wondering why Hargis & Co. are currently rambling away against our contributor Andrew Mathis: the probable reason is that this challenge of Andrew’s has meanwhile been brought to "Hannover"’s knowledge.
For Roberto Muehlenkamp / aka Cortavagatas, simply use our search function for Muehlenkamp and read, there's plenty of debate with him here. The poor man never had a chance.
One wonders why, if I "never had a chance" against "Revisionist" brilliance, poor Hargis found it necessary to delete all those posts of mine, which I have collected on this thread, among others, and eventually ban me from his lovely place.
Or why, if "Revisionists" have such superior arguments, so few of them show up for real open debate on uncensored boards like RODOH and the biggest mouth of them all, Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis, never dares to leave his warm and cozy Führerbunker.
Not all "Revisionists" gratefully swallow "Hannover" Hargis’ mendacious bragging, however. Some of them have realized what the fellow is all about. One of these is Mr. Wilfried Heink aka "neugierig", who in his RODOH post 18-Dec-2006 19:29 wrote the following:
I agree, Herr Muehlankamp, those guys over there are not entirely honest. Banning you and others and then performing victory dances is beyond even chutzpah. Hopefully this new poster, if he is new, will soon realize that dissenting views, if you will, are verboten.
As far as pointing him to RODOH, the name can not be mentioned, it is deleted. One of my posts was totally distorted, I dared mention RODOH, should have copied it, which almost made me quit that forum. Anyway, who knows, perhaps this lost sheep will find its way.
Not that Mr. Heink’s arguments are usually any better than those of his brothers-in-spirit, though he is one of the few "Revisionists" who at least tries to do some homework, but the above was an unexpected display of common sense for which I duly congratulated the old man.
A word now to the unhappy "PotPie", who claims that the HC blog’s contributors are "obsessed by this board and those who post here": apart from the amusement value of one or the other particular instructive showpiece of "Revisionist" imbecility, whether in quoted scripture from some vaunted guru or the CODOH yelpers’ own "wisdom", the only reason for one of us to pay any attention to the CODOH cesspit and its sorry inhabitants is their occasional mouthing off about him. That aside, we couldn’t care less about what these candy-ass losers write.
Ah, and in case anyone is wondering why Hargis & Co. are currently rambling away against our contributor Andrew Mathis: the probable reason is that this challenge of Andrew’s has meanwhile been brought to "Hannover"’s knowledge.
Wednesday, June 13, 2007
Fabian, Fabian...
I post too much about CODOH lately (it being such a source of fun), and here's hopefully the last time for a while. Fabian Eschen ("Sailor" at CODOH) posted this:
What is interesting, though, is that Eschen, who is a "Valued contributor" at CODOH, is completely unaware of this event (as his dismissive tone suggests). For those who don't know, Eschen is also a prolific translator of denier "literature". And that bit of antisemitism at the end - well, that's just classic. And I'm not even Jewish. Once again: so much for "revisionism" having no relation to antisemitism!
It was this fellow Sergey Romanov who posted on the other board in all seriousness, that the reason, why the remains of the hundreds of thousands of dead Jews who were allegedly killed in Babi Jar could not be found, was because the big flood came and washed it all away!Of course, there were never "hundreds of thousands of dead Jews" in Babij Jar, so I couldn't have made such a claim. And, of course, there was a well-known Kurenyovka tragedy in 1961, when a dam broke and the resulting massive mudslide buried not only numerous victims alive, but also destroyed the ravine. That is exactly the reason why Babij Jar no longer exists. (The official contemporary documents of investigation of the tragedy can be found in Babij Jar: chelovek, vlast', istorija, vol. 1, compiled by T. Yevstafjeva, Vitalij Nakhmanovich; Kiev, Vneshtorgizdat Ukrainy, 2004).
What a clever "Holocaust historian"!
They sure have some quality hoaxsters on that forum.
Sergey Romanov told the AHF that he hails from Russia. He is probably an "Ostjude" (East-Jew) who are flooding at this time Germany by the hundreds of thousands, demanding full welfare instantly and hate Germans.
What is interesting, though, is that Eschen, who is a "Valued contributor" at CODOH, is completely unaware of this event (as his dismissive tone suggests). For those who don't know, Eschen is also a prolific translator of denier "literature". And that bit of antisemitism at the end - well, that's just classic. And I'm not even Jewish. Once again: so much for "revisionism" having no relation to antisemitism!
Tuesday, June 12, 2007
Soap-for-brains Hargis
Jonnie Hargis lies through his teeth again:
See the contrived documents used at Nuremberg 'proving' soap was made from Jews:Except none of these documents suggest that the soap was made from Jews. The only fraud is Hargis himself.
!!! Human Soap - Official Nuremberg Documents !!!
http://forum.codoh.info/viewtopic.php?t=676
Yet another example of the Nuremberg fraud.
This is just too easy.
Skadi Poll: Did the Holocaust happen?
The results of the poll at the "Germanic online community" kinda blow that "Germanic intellectual superiority" theory out of the water, don't they.
Monday, June 11, 2007
More CODOH silliness
Some denier (who, for some reason, reminds me very much of k0nsl aka Haldan aka...) found an old CODOH thread (with which I have dealt here) and it seems that he wanted to say something but really couldn't, so he just spouted some nonsense.
He accuses me of selective quotation of sources, not providing any examples whatsoever. He brings up Olga Lengyel's death toll, except the death tolls given by inmates are simply irrelevant. He brings up Vrba, claiming that he admitted to being a false witness, except this, of course, is a lie, as he never did. Here's what the Veritas team had to say about Vrba:
The hapless chap then talks about Mattogno destroying this or that, but what about Mattogno himself, who has been destroyed by the HC team? To repeat his own words: "Once a source is exposed as fake and writers keep using him, aren't the writers that keep using it exposed as fake, too?"
All in all, this guy's posting amounts to one big ad hominem - he doesn't deal with a single argument at this blog. Which is only to be expected.
Ah, CODOH. For dessert, here's another nice thread:
Read the updates...
Update: In the same thread an old German CODOH member "Sailor" who is known as a translator of some denier texts from German into English, as an outspoken antisemite and simply as an all-around doofus, adds:
Update 2: a denier lemming "Laurentz Dahl" (spanked here) brings up some irrelevancies to counter the point that "No Jew who was once inside the gas chamber in operation come out alive". He brings up Yaakov Biskowitz, claiming that the latter claimed to have seen the collapsing floor of Sobibor gas chamber. This has been already dealt with: Biskowitz explicitly said that he did not see the collapsing floor. Moreover, here are the circumstances under which he had seen the gas chambers:
Then he brings up Hersz Cukierman, whose testimony only underscores the ignorance of the Jews like Pechersky, who were outside the Totenlager, about the method used. However, inside the Totenlager the information about specifically the use of "gas" was also probably a conjecture - again, only the Nazis and "motorists" would know for certain.
For the same reason his mention of other witnesses, like Bahir and Lichtman, is absolutely irrelevant - they were outside of Totenlager, if they did repeat the "collapsing floor" story, then it probably came from Biskowitz, AND "collapsing floor" is not the method of murder, so again, irrelevancy upon irrelevancy. Kalmen Wawryk told something by a kapo? The kapo was from the same camp as Kalmen, obviously, i.e. outside of Totenlager. Even if earlier that kapo had been in the Totenlager, there is, again, no guarantee that he somehow saw what had happened inside the gas chambers.
But despite the lack of knowledge about the precise method of murder, the Sobibor survivors are still valuable witnesses, because they can testify to the very fact of murder, to the proven fact that Sobibor was the last stop for the absolute majority of the arriving transports. Indeed, as Wewryk wrote:
Update 3: the denier in question responded. Well, kind of. As is only usual for CODOH deniers, he did not address a single point, thereby conceding that he has lost the argument. Instead, he wrote several ad hominem-filled paragraphs, which in effect, amount to "nyah-nyah-nyah, your behavior is childish and you fling ad hominems". Talk about pot(pie)s and kettles! So much for "open debate". Thanks for confirming that most CODOH deniers are retards, who are unable to deal with logical arguments - once again.
Update 4: Dahl responds to the comment regarding Biskowitz, but does not even link here! What a chicken. So, here's what Chicken Dahl (as I will call him from now on for refusal to link here, until he does) has to say:
He accuses me of selective quotation of sources, not providing any examples whatsoever. He brings up Olga Lengyel's death toll, except the death tolls given by inmates are simply irrelevant. He brings up Vrba, claiming that he admitted to being a false witness, except this, of course, is a lie, as he never did. Here's what the Veritas team had to say about Vrba:
Let's look at the testimony about "poetic license", the grounds on which Faurisson and our esteemed opponents insistently call Vrba a “self-perjuring liar”. Unlike the Negationists, who are content to draw their conclusions based on paraphrases from their friends, we would prefer to examine the court testimony itself, and highlight the passages from which it becomes clear that if there are “self-perjuring liars” around, Vrba is not one of them. We will even take the transcription of the trial records from a "Revisionist” site, www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/vrba3.html :Note how he doesn't give a link to the Veritas team statement, and instead chooses to misrepresent it. Perhaps this is because all links to RODOH are censored at CODOH forum? Actually, even the name "RODOH" is censored. It is automatically turned to "shills", as you can witness in the posting in question. This just shows how the CODOH bunch and Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis are afraid of the open debate.Q. I suggest, also, that you falsified to some extent as well, because throughout the book you referred to someone by the name of Rudolf Vrba, and you attribute the name Vrba to the conversations, and Rudi, meaning you, and in fact, there was nobody by that name in the camp, sir. Is that right?
A. That is perfectly so, but I would take a great objection against your word "falsify", because I would say, then, that the artist drawn my moustache in a different way has falsified something. This is not a document, but literature, and literature has been meant mainly for young people and it would be for young people a considerable confusion to explain to them all the methods of clandestine work and how it came that the names have to be changed. Moreover, I would have to explain my real ground and reasons why I changed my German name to the name of my native language, and this would have transferred, perhaps, a national hatred to the reader, which I wanted to avoid, against the Germans.
In other words, I used my licence of a poet, it is called licensia poetarium, to put in the book only those facts and events which will enable a young person to understand the general situation.
Q. Mm-hmmm. So for you it's poetic licence?
A. Poetic licence in this particular case.
Q. Yeah.
A. In other words, I am not bound to make of it a document, but re-creates the situation as close as possible to the truth without complicating it.
So Vrba never testified to using "poetic license" in the 1944 report, as Faurisson and our opponents would have us believe. He openly admitted to having used it in a personal memoir written twenty years after the report, where it was perfectly legitimate for him to do so, and that in regard only to details which in no way affected the accuracy of his description of events at Auschwitz-Birkenau. Apart from trying to make a fly into an elephant (another well-known “Revisionist” tactic) our opponents and their source seek to mislead their readers about the occasion, contents and object of Vrba’s statements.
The hapless chap then talks about Mattogno destroying this or that, but what about Mattogno himself, who has been destroyed by the HC team? To repeat his own words: "Once a source is exposed as fake and writers keep using him, aren't the writers that keep using it exposed as fake, too?"
All in all, this guy's posting amounts to one big ad hominem - he doesn't deal with a single argument at this blog. Which is only to be expected.
Ah, CODOH. For dessert, here's another nice thread:
vincentferrerGiven that Finkelstein is an atheist, only his ethnicity is meant. "Vee arr not antisemitic!" Yeah, yeah.
Valued contributor
[...]
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:13
[...]
He [Finkelstein - SR] cast a little bit of doubt on the holocaust. The Jews who control the place denied him tenure.
Personally, as a Catholic, I support this since I think Jews should not teach at private Catholic colleges.
Read the updates...
Update: In the same thread an old German CODOH member "Sailor" who is known as a translator of some denier texts from German into English, as an outspoken antisemite and simply as an all-around doofus, adds:
The man was booted off the forum when he lost his cool and abused people who did not agree with his views on Babi Jar.Take away the spin, and there is the core of truth. I was debunking the deniers' guru John Ball regarding the Babij Jar issue (see the full debunking here), and my last posting, which addressed the insane ramblings of some "Turpitz", who was making some rather outrageous claims like "why did the Zionist not intervene as one of their sacred burial sites was destroyed" ("Zionists"? "Intervene"? In Soviet Union? During Stalin's reign? The boy is a babbling ignoramus) - was deleted and I was banned. When a person describes this as a matter of "disagreement", rather than outright censorship by Hargis, who is always afraid of good debunkings, you can say that the person is severely deluded, or full of it. This Eschen guy is known to be a Mattogno fan, but he never addressed the refutations of Mattogno's stuff on our blog. All he can do is whine in online forums. Same applies to Hannover-Hargis, who is simply pathetic.
Update 2: a denier lemming "Laurentz Dahl" (spanked here) brings up some irrelevancies to counter the point that "No Jew who was once inside the gas chamber in operation come out alive". He brings up Yaakov Biskowitz, claiming that the latter claimed to have seen the collapsing floor of Sobibor gas chamber. This has been already dealt with: Biskowitz explicitly said that he did not see the collapsing floor. Moreover, here are the circumstances under which he had seen the gas chambers:
When I was passing by the two larger stores in Camp 2, I detached the cart and pushed it towards Camp 3. I was supposed to leave it near the gate, but I could not hold the vehicle back. The gate opened and it pushed me inside. Since I knew I would not get out alive from there, I began to run back at top speed and managed to reach my place of work without anyone noticing.So he was there for a few seconds, he was at a distance from the gas chambers, in a state of great panic, and later misinterpreted what he had seen in these few moments as a hollow "underneath" the chambers. Big deal! One must be a total loon to think that this "proves" anything. Besides, Biskowitz mentioned nothing about the method of murder. So he is irrelevant in this case!
Then he brings up Hersz Cukierman, whose testimony only underscores the ignorance of the Jews like Pechersky, who were outside the Totenlager, about the method used. However, inside the Totenlager the information about specifically the use of "gas" was also probably a conjecture - again, only the Nazis and "motorists" would know for certain.
For the same reason his mention of other witnesses, like Bahir and Lichtman, is absolutely irrelevant - they were outside of Totenlager, if they did repeat the "collapsing floor" story, then it probably came from Biskowitz, AND "collapsing floor" is not the method of murder, so again, irrelevancy upon irrelevancy. Kalmen Wawryk told something by a kapo? The kapo was from the same camp as Kalmen, obviously, i.e. outside of Totenlager. Even if earlier that kapo had been in the Totenlager, there is, again, no guarantee that he somehow saw what had happened inside the gas chambers.
But despite the lack of knowledge about the precise method of murder, the Sobibor survivors are still valuable witnesses, because they can testify to the very fact of murder, to the proven fact that Sobibor was the last stop for the absolute majority of the arriving transports. Indeed, as Wewryk wrote:
However, only a severely retarded person could remain ignorant of what went on there. The smoke and the smell said it all and we occasionally heard a terrified "Shma Yizroel" echo over to us from there."Dahl", you're even stupider than I thought.
Update 3: the denier in question responded. Well, kind of. As is only usual for CODOH deniers, he did not address a single point, thereby conceding that he has lost the argument. Instead, he wrote several ad hominem-filled paragraphs, which in effect, amount to "nyah-nyah-nyah, your behavior is childish and you fling ad hominems". Talk about pot(pie)s and kettles! So much for "open debate". Thanks for confirming that most CODOH deniers are retards, who are unable to deal with logical arguments - once again.
Update 4: Dahl responds to the comment regarding Biskowitz, but does not even link here! What a chicken. So, here's what Chicken Dahl (as I will call him from now on for refusal to link here, until he does) has to say:
Sergey Romanov (hello Sergey! since you are reading this) claims that Biskowitz did not see the collapsing floor and that anyway it's "irrelevant since the collapsing was not the murder agent". He is lying.Note how Chicken Dahl does not deal with a simple fact that since the floor was not claimed to gave been a murder weapon, it is a non-example when it comes to the issue at hand. Worse yet, he accuses me of lying, but then cannot support his accusation. Let's see. What is my claim?
This is what Biskowitz actually attested to:Q. Please understand me. You are somewhat familiar with these matters. Did you see the floor when it had opened up?So what he claims that he did not see was the process of the floor opening up. What he claims he saw was corpses in a pit underneath the gas chamber. Which means that he claimed to have seen the floor of the gas chamber in its opened up state.
A. I did not see that ? I merely saw that underneath the gas chamber, there was a hollow which already contained bodies.
Presiding Judge Thank you, Mr. Biskowitz, you have concluded your testimony. I know you have not told us everything. But there was no alternative.
Biskowitz explicitly said that he did not see the collapsing floor.How does the witness answer the question "Did you see the floor when it had opened up?"?
I did not see that - I merely saw that underneath the gas chamber, there was a hollow which already contained bodies.So once again: he did not see the "collapsing floor" itself. I.e. exactly what I have claimed. Game, set, match. I.e., it is Chicken Dahl who is lying through his teeth, especially when he claims that Biskowitz "claimed to have seen the floor of the gas chamber in its opened up state". Biskowitz mentioned nothing about "the floor in the opened state" and nowhere in his testimony it is implied. Indeed, to have seen the bodies in a supposed pit underneath a chamber through an already opened floor, Biskowitz would have to be near the gas chambers. However, he said that he saw the pit and the hollow "from a distance". This implies that he has interpreted what he thought he had seen to be two "levels" at once, i.e. a chamber and what is underneath a chamber, which would not imply that the "collapsing floor" had to be in an open state at that moment. Taken at face value, his testimony implies that the pit underneath a chamber was exposed and could be seen from the outside (he also mentions a little train that carried the bodies, implying that the bodies would have to be unloaded from the exposed pit). The "hollow" was supposed to be visible by itself, from a distance, with or without the flooor in the open state. Now, what he really did see we will probably never know. To repeat:
So he was there for a few seconds, he was at a distance from the gas chambers, in a state of great panic, and later misinterpreted what he had seen in these few moments as a hollow "underneath" the chambers. Big deal!Possibly, it was a heap of corpses in some small pit near the chambers, which Biskowitz, in those few panicky moments, interpreted to have a "continuation" underneath the building. Or whatever. Anyway, Chicken Dahl, you fail again. And you did not even try to address the rest of it...
Thursday, June 07, 2007
Webb/Lisciotto update
Those of you who have followed the ARC/deathcamps.org/death-camps.org tragicomic saga, may find the following letters by Carmelo Lisciotto and Chris Webb sent to German 1&1, to be of some comic relief. Some people (like the owners of the Axis History Forum) may even consider taking legal action, because this pair of lying thugs libels them - and many other people.
You will also note that Webb has had a book "published" with "Andy Schmidt" in 2005. Two facts are significant here: 1) Andy Schmidt is the very forgerer exposed by me, whose forgeries Chris Webb tried to peddle to the ARC group, and which caused the demise of ARC; 2) until Webb wrote this letter, nobody in ARC knew anything about his books (which, he claims, are based on the deathcamps.org site!), this fact being yet another clear testimony about the level of his honesty and integrity.
Thankfully, German 1&1 didn't give much weight to their laughable "evidence".
Read more!
You will also note that Webb has had a book "published" with "Andy Schmidt" in 2005. Two facts are significant here: 1) Andy Schmidt is the very forgerer exposed by me, whose forgeries Chris Webb tried to peddle to the ARC group, and which caused the demise of ARC; 2) until Webb wrote this letter, nobody in ARC knew anything about his books (which, he claims, are based on the deathcamps.org site!), this fact being yet another clear testimony about the level of his honesty and integrity.
Thankfully, German 1&1 didn't give much weight to their laughable "evidence".
Read more!
"Carmelo A. Lisciotto" wrote:
[1&1 official name omitted],
Our website is registered with the US office of copyright, the confirmation# is
U.S. Copyright Office Confirmation (ORD8368).
http://www.death-camps.org/links/ shows links to Axis History Forum ( a
neo-nazi website)
http://www.death-camps.org/arc/supporters.html <-- is a fraudulent support
page where people who donated to www.deathcamps.org ARC are listed as
donors to this counterfeit website with neo-nazi links.
In addition we've sent by email, fax and postal letters, over 10 pieces of
evidence that validate our authorship and ownership, we've asked what
supporting evidence was provided by the counterfeit website, we were given
no response by 1and1.
We've provided enough evidence to allow the counterfeit website to be
removed. Should the owner of the bogus site Stephan Their wish to contest
our copyright the onus is on him to pursue that in a court of law, 1and1
would be acting in accordance with acceptable use policy by removing this
fraudulent site.
Regrettably, 1and1, and it's German affiliates have handled this matter
poorly, and in direct contradiction to your own posted Terms of Service.
This matter is far from settled, we've sent DMCA notifications to 1and1, we
were ignored, this matter is being referred to our legal counsel for
arbitration in US courts, and EU courts. In addtion we have consulted with
our contacts at the BBC, USHMM, CNN and are making this story public.
By no means will ARC www.deathcamps.org consider this matter settled while a
counterfeit version of our website with links to neo-nazi groups and
fraudulent financial solicitations appears on your servers.
We are fully prepared to take this matter to great lengths until this matter
is brought to an acceptable resolution.
Thus far, 1and1 has by all measures appeared to be sympathetic to this
counterfeit website with nothing but anecdotal statements offered up by the
perpetrators.
We can not allow our supporters and contributors to be so rudely
disrepected.
Sincerley,
Chris Webb and Carmelo Lisciotto
ARC www.deathcamps.org
Von: Chris Webb
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Mai 2007 16:08
Betreff: Re: C74876943 Re: 1and1 Germany appearing to be sympathetic to Neo-Nazi and Holocaust revisionists, and website counterfeiters...
Dear [1&1 official name omitted],
Thank you very much for your email.
We thought that we had sent you a plethora of proof, whilst the other party, in the shape of Mr. Their provided you with nothing, as confirmed by your own people.
I attach the catalogue record from the Wiener Library in London, of a book i produced from the ARC website, www.deathcamps.org and material culled from my own privatearchive collected over the past 35 years.
If you type in the online search on the Wiener Library online catalogue, you will see the book i produced on Treblinka, and you will note the link to deathcamps.org
I hope that this provides the sort of proof you are looking for.
We understand there is a natural tendency to support neighbours, but unless Mr. Thier can provide similiar evidence, it would seem to me, that the claims are justified, and you do sympathise with neo-nazis and holocuast revisionists, in the face of a mountain of counter evidence.
Once again we draw your attention to the dates, the original site established in 2002 with 1and 1 and the counterfeit site being established in 2006, this book was produced in 2005.
We rest our case, and we hope you will do the right thing, as outlined in Mr Lisciotto's earlier email.
We are very disappointed in 1and1de stance, but not surprised.
Regards,
Chris Webb
Thursday, May 10, 2007
Is He Just a Puppet?
A few days ago, I sent the below e-mail to Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis, pursuant to a post he'd made at his personal Führerbunker, the CODOH Revisionist Forum.
Read more!
Predictably, his response was exactly as I predicted.
First we have a page from the Google cache (in two parts below -- click for full-size versions). The date is May 8, 2007.
and
Today, I checked the Führerbunker, and there was a new "sticky" with my name on it. Looky:
Has Jonnie Hargis ceased to have a mind of his own? Is he merely a puppet for my amusement?
When I send him a link to this post, we'll find out...
Read more!
Today, Jonnie, you wrote about the "Holocaust industry":I sent this to his UCLA e-mail address rather than one of his pseudonymous accounts.
"It simply another example of them starting with a false assumption and then trying to force fit everything into it."
You are truly the king of irony, Mr. Hargis. Do you not realize that this is *exactly* what you, as a filthy Holocaust denier, do?
You begin with the belief (insane as it is) that there was no Holocaust. Then you just deny any evidence to the contrary. Document that's incriminating? A forgery, of course! Eyewitnesses? All liars! Your old favorite, "forensic evidence"? Just refuse to define what you mean!
Man, you are *such* a one-trick pony.
Now go make a nasty post about me, you little girl, you.
a.m.
Predictably, his response was exactly as I predicted.
First we have a page from the Google cache (in two parts below -- click for full-size versions). The date is May 8, 2007.
and
Today, I checked the Führerbunker, and there was a new "sticky" with my name on it. Looky:
Has Jonnie Hargis ceased to have a mind of his own? Is he merely a puppet for my amusement?
When I send him a link to this post, we'll find out...
Wednesday, April 18, 2007
Work in Progress
I've finished the first draft of rather a lengthy essay on Reichskristallnacht, and since I intend to publish it at the Holocaust History Project Web site rather than in a peer-reviewed publication (where I'd be relinquishing the copyright in most cases), I'm presenting my first draft online for those interested in having a peak. The first two paragraphs are here. If you're interested, read the whole thing.
A standard argument by Holocaust deniers is that, while they do not believe that there was an organized plot by Nazi Germany to exterminate the Jews of Europe, that gas chambers were used to this end (among other methods), or that the number of fatalities was nearly six million (and perhaps more), they "[do] not deny the tragedy that the Jews suffered in World War II" (Kulaszka). However, as time has gone on, this gambit has been dropped, so much so that there are self-styled "revisionists" unwilling to admit that any innocent Jew died at the hands of the Nazis. Falling into this camp of Holocaust deniers are such apologists as Friedrich Paul Berg, Carlos Whitlock Porter, and the godfather of American Holocaust denial, Willis Carto.
This sort of denial had always been embraced by the most extreme elements within the Holocaust-denial movement. However, "mainstream" deniers are engendering it more and more. One such Holocaust denier is Jonnie A. Hargis. Posting on March 5, 2007, to the Web-based discussion forum of the Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (CODOH) as "Hannover," Hargis cut and pasted a twenty-year-old essay by Ingrid Weckert on Kristallnacht and commented that this was "a more accurate account of Kritallnacht [sic]."
Read more!
A standard argument by Holocaust deniers is that, while they do not believe that there was an organized plot by Nazi Germany to exterminate the Jews of Europe, that gas chambers were used to this end (among other methods), or that the number of fatalities was nearly six million (and perhaps more), they "[do] not deny the tragedy that the Jews suffered in World War II" (Kulaszka). However, as time has gone on, this gambit has been dropped, so much so that there are self-styled "revisionists" unwilling to admit that any innocent Jew died at the hands of the Nazis. Falling into this camp of Holocaust deniers are such apologists as Friedrich Paul Berg, Carlos Whitlock Porter, and the godfather of American Holocaust denial, Willis Carto.
This sort of denial had always been embraced by the most extreme elements within the Holocaust-denial movement. However, "mainstream" deniers are engendering it more and more. One such Holocaust denier is Jonnie A. Hargis. Posting on March 5, 2007, to the Web-based discussion forum of the Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (CODOH) as "Hannover," Hargis cut and pasted a twenty-year-old essay by Ingrid Weckert on Kristallnacht and commented that this was "a more accurate account of Kritallnacht [sic]."
Read more!
Saturday, April 14, 2007
The Webb-Lisciotto farce goes on: now they try to kill death-camps.org
Chris Webb and Carmelo Lisciotto (of H.E.A.R.T. fame - or should I say infamy?) have reached a new low.
Recently Webb has called 1&1, the German Internet provider on whose server death-camps.org is hosted, and claimed to hold the copyright to all deathcamps.org materials, which were hosted at death-camps.org. Astonishingly, 1&1 blocked the site based just on Webb's empty claims.
And here's the threat sent by Webb to Stephan Thier (sic), the owner of death-camps.org domain:
(Note: through all these years Webb, a native Englishman and former ARC secretary, hasn't learned proper spelling and grammar.)
Webb's claim to copyright ownership is ridiculous. All the contents of the main site are indeed under ARC copyright, but there is no law which permits anyone, even ( :-) ) a secretary in the group just to claim to be a copyright owner - simply on the strength of the fact that this person also owns the domain name of the site.
In fact, while Webb himself has contributed some information to the site, most of the work has been done by other people, especially the webmaster (who is now behind death-camps.org). I have created a couple of ARC pages myself, and heavily contributed to several others, and I didn't give Webb any right to claim to be their owner.
It should be mentioned that while several unprincipled individuals from the former ARC group have chosen to support Webb, the majority of the ARC group (including two of the three founders) haven't.
What's worse is that deathcamps.org currently hosts a bunch of "independent websites". There was an understanding in the group that these contributions did not fall under an "umbrella" ARC copyright, but were fully independent. None of these sites' owners currently supports Webb (except Webb himself). In fact, John Ulrich Poulsen has tried for months - in vain - to have his copyrighted work removed from the site. (The updated version of his page is on the currently blocked death-camps.org).
Therefore it is Webb who is in violation of copyright law. He is a thief, pure and simple.
Carmelo, on the other hand, has been busy with mud-slinging campaign.
Check out the fake blog "http://holocaustcontroversy.blogspot.com". Cowardly blog-owner has removed all the postings, but some info still remains there. Moreover, some information on what was contained in this porn-filled smear-blog can be found at http://www.blogcatalog.com/blogs/holocaust-controversy.html [screenshot], and some remains will be available at Google for some time.
Of course, there will be denials of ARC connection. But look at these Wikipedia edits: 1, 2. Who is the vandal behind the edits? Check out his history of contributions: 1, 2. Rather clear, isn't it?
How sad it is that among all the Holocaust denial going on in the world, the credible Holocaust history sites are being ruined by such scum.
In case you're inclined to write to these gentlemen, you can find their addresses and e-mails through WHOIS service (just type in deathcamps.org). The 1&1 contact page is here.
Recently Webb has called 1&1, the German Internet provider on whose server death-camps.org is hosted, and claimed to hold the copyright to all deathcamps.org materials, which were hosted at death-camps.org. Astonishingly, 1&1 blocked the site based just on Webb's empty claims.
And here's the threat sent by Webb to Stephan Thier (sic), the owner of death-camps.org domain:
(Note: through all these years Webb, a native Englishman and former ARC secretary, hasn't learned proper spelling and grammar.)
Webb's claim to copyright ownership is ridiculous. All the contents of the main site are indeed under ARC copyright, but there is no law which permits anyone, even ( :-) ) a secretary in the group just to claim to be a copyright owner - simply on the strength of the fact that this person also owns the domain name of the site.
In fact, while Webb himself has contributed some information to the site, most of the work has been done by other people, especially the webmaster (who is now behind death-camps.org). I have created a couple of ARC pages myself, and heavily contributed to several others, and I didn't give Webb any right to claim to be their owner.
It should be mentioned that while several unprincipled individuals from the former ARC group have chosen to support Webb, the majority of the ARC group (including two of the three founders) haven't.
What's worse is that deathcamps.org currently hosts a bunch of "independent websites". There was an understanding in the group that these contributions did not fall under an "umbrella" ARC copyright, but were fully independent. None of these sites' owners currently supports Webb (except Webb himself). In fact, John Ulrich Poulsen has tried for months - in vain - to have his copyrighted work removed from the site. (The updated version of his page is on the currently blocked death-camps.org).
Therefore it is Webb who is in violation of copyright law. He is a thief, pure and simple.
Carmelo, on the other hand, has been busy with mud-slinging campaign.
Check out the fake blog "http://holocaustcontroversy.blogspot.com". Cowardly blog-owner has removed all the postings, but some info still remains there. Moreover, some information on what was contained in this porn-filled smear-blog can be found at http://www.blogcatalog.com/blogs/holocaust-controversy.html [screenshot], and some remains will be available at Google for some time.
Of course, there will be denials of ARC connection. But look at these Wikipedia edits: 1, 2. Who is the vandal behind the edits? Check out his history of contributions: 1, 2. Rather clear, isn't it?
How sad it is that among all the Holocaust denial going on in the world, the credible Holocaust history sites are being ruined by such scum.
In case you're inclined to write to these gentlemen, you can find their addresses and e-mails through WHOIS service (just type in deathcamps.org). The 1&1 contact page is here.
Tuesday, March 20, 2007
So much for "k0nsl"
I had this idiot nailed a year or two ago. Now we have the confirmation.
His reaction: To pull down all of his Web sites. What a coward...
His reaction: To pull down all of his Web sites. What a coward...
Expo magazine reveals: The spider in the virtual revisionist web
Many of the Internet revisionists hide behind aliases and conduct their business anonymously. One of the most important, and mysterious, is "k0nsl". The Swedish anti-racist magazine Expo can now reveal that the man behind the pseudonym is Swedish and called Jonathan Andersson.
Writing under several different pseudonyms, the 22-year-old Jonathan Andersson has become a central figure in the online revisionist web. As the webmaster of CODOH Forum, he has a key role in the premier virtual meeting place for Holocaust deniers – a meeting place where he is also an active participant.
In addition, Jonathan Andersson runs his own homepage, the "Holocaust History Archive"; a revisionist "copy" of the genuine site "Holocaust History". It is a fact that several famous deniers link to articles on Jonathan Andersson's website.
Andersson has for quite some time eluded historians and writers specializing in the field of Holocaust denial. Using aliases such as "k0nsl", "system33r" and "Julius Streicher", he has been able to successfully start and run revisionist hate sites while remaining undercover.
He has also extolled the virtues of Holocaust denial in Internet forums related to completely different topics.
"The anonymity offered by the Internet makes it possible for people who trade in racial, religious and ethnic supremacy to safely market their ideas and beliefs," says Ray Franklin, one of America's foremost experts on Internet hate crime.
Apart from, for example, currently serving on the national Counter-Terrorism Training Coordination Working Group of the U.S. Department of Justice, Franklin runs a well-known website called The Hate Directory. It lists global hate sites, including Jonathan Andersson's "Holocaust History Archive."
"It is of utmost importance that we investigate the attempts made by these groups to disseminate their propaganda," says Franklin.
Journalist Albrecht Kolthoff works on the anti-racism research project Redok in Germany. He has followed "k0nsl" and his activities for years without knowing who's behind the pseudonym.
"This whole Internet scene is filled with disinformation, but we believe that "k0nsl" has been active for the past 4-5 years," says Kolthoff.
"Of course, "k0nsl" cannot be compared to someone like Ernst Zündel, but he uses his Internet-related talents to promote something he believes will further the national socialist goals," Kolthoff points out.
One of the reasons why Jonathan Andersson up until now has been able to keep his identity a secret, is his unusually good computer skills.
"He is a very talented and able person when it comes to computer programming, and has created hacker programs and 'Trojans' infecting computers all over the world," Kolthoff explains.
Andersson himself claims to have been a member of the famous hacker group "Sm0ked Crew", who during the early 2000s hacked companies such as Intel, Compaq, the New York Times and Hewlett-Packard. It is not clear whether or not he is a suspect in these crime cases.
Jonathan Andersson's forum posts are characterized by a poorly concealed anti-Semitism:
The German civilian population who was the victim of repeated fire-bombs are "holocaust" victims a hundred times more than the Jews who were just sent to concentration camps (safe-keeping), where they learned how to work, how to be somewhat decent.
There was no "jewish holocaust", no "gas chambers" and no "systematic extermination". (…)
To hell with the "holocaust" lies and those who try to uphold them.
Albrecht Kolthoff believes that it is important to expose persons such as Jonathan Andersson: "The public has a right to find out about what kind of actors claim to 'just be searching for the truth.'
"They use very nasty and dishonest methods to spread their ideas. If any one of them has done something illegal, we should be able to hand over these lunatics to the law enforcement."
Expo has tried and failed to get a comment from Jonathan Andersson himself.
Monday, December 25, 2006
Just in case you were wondering...
...what scholarly pursuits holocaustresearchproject.org was up to, click here (or see this screenshot in case they have already changed it).
That, and the "re-establishment" of the old ARC site. The true site is, of course, available only here.
It will suffice to say that H.E.A.R.T.'s "ARC" still contains the fake materials (click here for more details).
This is exactly what I've been writing about all this time. They don't care about authenticity at all.
Chris Webb and Carmelo Lisciotto are not smart people, that much should be obvious by now.
That, and the "re-establishment" of the old ARC site. The true site is, of course, available only here.
It will suffice to say that H.E.A.R.T.'s "ARC" still contains the fake materials (click here for more details).
This is exactly what I've been writing about all this time. They don't care about authenticity at all.
Chris Webb and Carmelo Lisciotto are not smart people, that much should be obvious by now.
Sunday, December 24, 2006
What do deniers give each other for Christmas?
Though there's a school of radical revisionists which holds to the view that Christmas is in fact a gigantic Hoax perpetrated by the retail industry on the world every year, the fact remains that to the best of our knowledge, the majority of our erstwhile opponents, in print and online, celebrate Christmahannukwanzakaa. Well, maybe not the -hannukwanzakaa bit, but you know what I'm talking about.
Yes, it's that time of year, Yuletide Eve, when even diehard Holocaust deniers must surely be gathering round the chimney, not in order to examine it for any traces of carbonised corpses, but to await whatever it is Santa and his little helpers have brought the happy revisionist household that year. All of which begs the question: what could, would or should Holocaust deniers be getting for Christmas?
Answers below the fold...
For some, the answer's fairly easy. For others, we can only speculate.
We're pretty sure that IHR maven Greg Raven will be getting that cut-price bargain video of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes' fairytale wedding that the Church of Scientology must be marketing to their flock of sheep right about now.
IHR boss Mark Weber, meanwhile, is surely to be given his 25th 'how to complete your book manuscript' guide, seeing as how it's been only 25 years since he wrote to David Irving promising the revisionist blockbuster The Final Solution: Legend and Reality. And maybe a thesaurus as well.
Paul Grubach will get a letter-writing kit so he can practice the calligraphy of his signature for his next missive to a head-of-state or chief executive of an NGO.
Friedrich Paul Berg will be given his umpteenth model German truck to play with, though we also suspect that he may well be rewarded with a year-long prescription to anti-Alzheimer's drug Aricept.
David Irving, meanwhile, will surely get a copy of the critical edition of the Anne Frank Diary from daughter Jessica, a smack in the gob from Bente and his own TV series from Fox entitled Desperate Louse Lies. Without, we hasten to add, any sign of Teri Hatcher or Eva Longoria on-set. Dang!
Richard Krege will get a new lawnmower specially designed to trim in between the patio stones, or the Treblinka monument, so that it'll be dual-purpose.
Joe Bellinger gets a complete annotated and mistranslated set of the Talmud.
Christopher Bollyn is getting a downloaded copy of 'Loose Change' on a CD-ROM. And a Christmas card scrawled 'FUCK YOU' from his former buddies at AFP.
Ingrid Rimland will give hubby Ernst Zündel a matchbook with the ad saying "if you can draw Skippy, you can earn big money as an artist".
Ernst will give Ingrid "some good German black bread" and another yeat of not having to sleep with him.
Robert Faurisson, we're assured, will be receiving a signed first-edition of J-B. Peres' classic 1827 work How Napoleon Never Existed, Or, The Great Error, Source Of An Infinite Number Of Errors To Be Seen In The History Of The Nineteenth Century, which he will hate since it pre-dates his trademark 'Ajax method' by 150 years. But them's the breaks.
Apparently, Carlo Mattogno and Robert Faurisson stopped exchanging Christmas cards in 1995, but there's been no communication breakdown within the Mattogno family. This means that Mattogno's brother, Catholic fundamentalist antisemite Gian Pio, will no doubt be gifting his sibling yet another copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, this time in Polish, which will cause bro' Carlo to grit his teeth and make a wan but sickly smile in front of the aunts and uncles of the Mattogno clan, but which he will rush away the instant the family dinner is over to devour.
The rest of the Mattogno family have apparently clubbed together to get Carlo a barbecue grill to replace the one he set on fire accidentally conducting impromptu cremation experiments with salt beef, since this was the most Jewish meat he could think of trying to carbonise.
Jürgen Graf will find all the latest Ron Jeremy DVDs in his stocking, so that Graf can reassure himself that Jewish pornstars really do have bigger penises than he does.
Alas, poor Sylvia Stolz won't be getting what she wants for Weihnachten this year, a little (Horst) Mahler, and will have to make do with a black-white-red-painted dildo instead. Double alas, the patriotically-painted dildo will turn out to be a leftover from the days of the Kameradschaften so Stolz will try and take it back to the store in case Michael Kühnen sat on it once.
Germar Rudolf's another one who's spending Xmas behind bars, but thanks to his personal website, we know what he put on his wishlist long ago. Mainly really bad 80s pop music and oldies, so it's been decided chez Rudolf that the young boy needs livening up, and thus he'll be receiving Slayer's 'Reign in Blood' and Tool's 'Undertow' albums instead. To complement the Tool CD, he'll also be getting rear-opening pajamas.
Alexander Baron will get the new book 'How to Live on a Prison Diet'.
But let's not forget our online friends at alt.revisionism, the Cesspit and RODOH.
Scott Smith, our favourite denier and owner of RODOH, is probably getting another model German truck like his friend Freaky Freddy Berg.
Claudia Rothenbach is to get a gift certificate to pay for gender-reassignment surgery at Johns Hopkins.
A.S. Marques will be getting a case of King Oliver sardines.
RiverCola will be getting a bullet in the head followed by an exhaustive forensic examination by a neutral commission of investigators, who will then present the results to him in his coffin.
For SeymoreG, we've heard that Martha Stewart's Ephraimite Guide To Entertaining has been wrapped up and placed under the tree down under in New Zealand.
His fellow Kiwi Lurkerthe/rodohcodohwatchwatch is being given free psychiatric therapy.
For Herr Wilf 'neugierig' Heink, a set of rabbit hutches and some lettuce.
A crate of Sterno for Matt Giwer.
Tom Moran gets a set of teach-yourself language cassettes. In English.
New tinfoil and a special Xmassy tinsel variant for Scott Bradbury's hat.
IlluSionS667 is being abducted for a get-away-from-it-all holiday season break inside the alien mothership at Newschwabenland.
And finally, Jonny 'Hannover' Hargis, circus ringmaster of CODOH forum, is getting some very special gifts from the cast of The Wizard of Oz: a heart, a brain and some courage....
Merry Christmahannukwanzakaa everybody!
Yes, it's that time of year, Yuletide Eve, when even diehard Holocaust deniers must surely be gathering round the chimney, not in order to examine it for any traces of carbonised corpses, but to await whatever it is Santa and his little helpers have brought the happy revisionist household that year. All of which begs the question: what could, would or should Holocaust deniers be getting for Christmas?
Answers below the fold...
For some, the answer's fairly easy. For others, we can only speculate.
We're pretty sure that IHR maven Greg Raven will be getting that cut-price bargain video of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes' fairytale wedding that the Church of Scientology must be marketing to their flock of sheep right about now.
IHR boss Mark Weber, meanwhile, is surely to be given his 25th 'how to complete your book manuscript' guide, seeing as how it's been only 25 years since he wrote to David Irving promising the revisionist blockbuster The Final Solution: Legend and Reality. And maybe a thesaurus as well.
Paul Grubach will get a letter-writing kit so he can practice the calligraphy of his signature for his next missive to a head-of-state or chief executive of an NGO.
Friedrich Paul Berg will be given his umpteenth model German truck to play with, though we also suspect that he may well be rewarded with a year-long prescription to anti-Alzheimer's drug Aricept.
David Irving, meanwhile, will surely get a copy of the critical edition of the Anne Frank Diary from daughter Jessica, a smack in the gob from Bente and his own TV series from Fox entitled Desperate Louse Lies. Without, we hasten to add, any sign of Teri Hatcher or Eva Longoria on-set. Dang!
Richard Krege will get a new lawnmower specially designed to trim in between the patio stones, or the Treblinka monument, so that it'll be dual-purpose.
Joe Bellinger gets a complete annotated and mistranslated set of the Talmud.
Christopher Bollyn is getting a downloaded copy of 'Loose Change' on a CD-ROM. And a Christmas card scrawled 'FUCK YOU' from his former buddies at AFP.
Ingrid Rimland will give hubby Ernst Zündel a matchbook with the ad saying "if you can draw Skippy, you can earn big money as an artist".
Ernst will give Ingrid "some good German black bread" and another yeat of not having to sleep with him.
Robert Faurisson, we're assured, will be receiving a signed first-edition of J-B. Peres' classic 1827 work How Napoleon Never Existed, Or, The Great Error, Source Of An Infinite Number Of Errors To Be Seen In The History Of The Nineteenth Century, which he will hate since it pre-dates his trademark 'Ajax method' by 150 years. But them's the breaks.
Apparently, Carlo Mattogno and Robert Faurisson stopped exchanging Christmas cards in 1995, but there's been no communication breakdown within the Mattogno family. This means that Mattogno's brother, Catholic fundamentalist antisemite Gian Pio, will no doubt be gifting his sibling yet another copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, this time in Polish, which will cause bro' Carlo to grit his teeth and make a wan but sickly smile in front of the aunts and uncles of the Mattogno clan, but which he will rush away the instant the family dinner is over to devour.
The rest of the Mattogno family have apparently clubbed together to get Carlo a barbecue grill to replace the one he set on fire accidentally conducting impromptu cremation experiments with salt beef, since this was the most Jewish meat he could think of trying to carbonise.
Jürgen Graf will find all the latest Ron Jeremy DVDs in his stocking, so that Graf can reassure himself that Jewish pornstars really do have bigger penises than he does.
Alas, poor Sylvia Stolz won't be getting what she wants for Weihnachten this year, a little (Horst) Mahler, and will have to make do with a black-white-red-painted dildo instead. Double alas, the patriotically-painted dildo will turn out to be a leftover from the days of the Kameradschaften so Stolz will try and take it back to the store in case Michael Kühnen sat on it once.
Germar Rudolf's another one who's spending Xmas behind bars, but thanks to his personal website, we know what he put on his wishlist long ago. Mainly really bad 80s pop music and oldies, so it's been decided chez Rudolf that the young boy needs livening up, and thus he'll be receiving Slayer's 'Reign in Blood' and Tool's 'Undertow' albums instead. To complement the Tool CD, he'll also be getting rear-opening pajamas.
Alexander Baron will get the new book 'How to Live on a Prison Diet'.
But let's not forget our online friends at alt.revisionism, the Cesspit and RODOH.
Scott Smith, our favourite denier and owner of RODOH, is probably getting another model German truck like his friend Freaky Freddy Berg.
Claudia Rothenbach is to get a gift certificate to pay for gender-reassignment surgery at Johns Hopkins.
A.S. Marques will be getting a case of King Oliver sardines.
RiverCola will be getting a bullet in the head followed by an exhaustive forensic examination by a neutral commission of investigators, who will then present the results to him in his coffin.
For SeymoreG, we've heard that Martha Stewart's Ephraimite Guide To Entertaining has been wrapped up and placed under the tree down under in New Zealand.
His fellow Kiwi Lurkerthe/rodohcodohwatchwatch is being given free psychiatric therapy.
For Herr Wilf 'neugierig' Heink, a set of rabbit hutches and some lettuce.
A crate of Sterno for Matt Giwer.
Tom Moran gets a set of teach-yourself language cassettes. In English.
New tinfoil and a special Xmassy tinsel variant for Scott Bradbury's hat.
IlluSionS667 is being abducted for a get-away-from-it-all holiday season break inside the alien mothership at Newschwabenland.
And finally, Jonny 'Hannover' Hargis, circus ringmaster of CODOH forum, is getting some very special gifts from the cast of The Wizard of Oz: a heart, a brain and some courage....
Merry Christmahannukwanzakaa everybody!
Wednesday, December 20, 2006
Not all is trash on the Cesspit
While looking through this thread of the RODOH forum’s Memory Hole section for censored posts of mine to be mentioned in the commentary to another of Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis’ mendacious victory dances that can be read in my RODOH post # 7717, I came upon several posts of mine that had been deleted or retained on the thread Laws of nature undo Holocaust story of the Cesspit. These posts that never saw the light of day – only the first message I posted on that thread made it – are recorded in my RODOH posts # 1813, # 1820, # 1821, # 1822, # 1823, # 1828, # 1829 and # 1830.
Read more!
I also found my reference, in RODOH post # 1825, to an interesting new character who, under the handle "mscfs2", had started posting on the "Laws of nature" thread, followed by a quote of this poster’s first message.
That message and the other messages by mscfs2 published on that thread will be quoted hereafter, not only because their quality contrasts with the trash written by his "Revisionist" opponents, but also because they suggest a technically knowledgeable person more than able to paint "Revisionist" pseudo-science into a corner.
As mentioned in my RODOH post # 1826, I tried to get in contact wish mscfs2 via PM. At that time Hargis still allowed the PM facility to all posters (he later restricted it to members of the "Revisionist" family, IIRC), and mscfs2 thus got the message. On 2 December 2004, I received the following e-mail message from him:
As I had suspected, mscfs2’s apparent failure to respond to his opponents’ later posts had been due not to his having given up the fight, but to what is the usual cause for such outcome on "Hannover" Hargis’ forum: cowardly censorship of an inconvenient poster, who was eventually banned.
What is more interesting, though, is that mscfs2, who is a geological engineer, had made a calculation of the timber requirements for the roasters at Treblinka which, if I understand his e-mail correctly, points to a much lower amount of wood than I calculated in my article about clip # 23 of the One Third of the Holocaust video. This calculation, if accurate, would confirm the assumption, expressed at the start of my article about clip # 25 of the same video, that my calculation of the required amount of wood is on the high side. According to this site, the estimated saw-log volume in a North American pine forest is 14.5 cords per acre, which would mean that the 180 acres calculated by mscfs2 correspond to 2,610 cords of wood. The amount I calculated in this article, 30.9 cords of pine wood per incineration or 23,175 cords for an assumed 750 incinerations of 1,000 corpses each, is almost 9 times higher. Even if they incinerated about 2,000 corpses at a time and thus required only 375 incinerations to burn 750,000 corpses, the amount of wood according to my calculation would still be more than 4 times higher than the amount calculated by mscfs2, assuming that he made his calculations for 750,000 corpses like I did.
It would be interesting to see how mscfs2 (who is identical with the Axis History Forum poster "Pangea" I mentioned in this article, by the way) arrived at his result and explained the technical plausibility thereof, which is why I hope that he will visit our blog for a discussion about this matter.
Read more!
I also found my reference, in RODOH post # 1825, to an interesting new character who, under the handle "mscfs2", had started posting on the "Laws of nature" thread, followed by a quote of this poster’s first message.
That message and the other messages by mscfs2 published on that thread will be quoted hereafter, not only because their quality contrasts with the trash written by his "Revisionist" opponents, but also because they suggest a technically knowledgeable person more than able to paint "Revisionist" pseudo-science into a corner.
mscfs2
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 7
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 8:34 am Download Post Post subject:
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In all fairness guys, I don’t like the original analysis. It misses some points in the mass cremation pyre scenario. A pyre has a vertical configuration (layers of bodies above wood) and in my opinion this is crucial to the analysis.
I apologize for the rather long post, but please bear with me.
First some basic facts:
A wood fire has a range of temperatures. The range is near 1100 F near the coals to about 300 F at the tip of the flame. All these temperatures exceed the boiling point of water (212 F). Therefore all materials within the flame would be undergoing dehydration. Down low near the 1100 F coals it would be more rapid. Up high (2 meters) it would be slower. But all corpses would be in the process of dehydration.
The human body (on average) is about 60% water by weight. If you assume 150 lb average adult then 150 *0.6 = 90 lbs water. 150 * 0.4 = 60 lb of solid matter.
The human skeleton is about 20% total body weight (wet). Therefore 150 lbs * 0.2 = 30 lbs (wet). Since bones contain somewhat less than 50% water content by weight 30 lbs of bones (wet) yields roughly 15 lbs of solid matter. (Astonishingly light weight)
With a total dry weight of 60 lbs, of which about 15 lbs is bone, this leaves about 45 lbs for muscles, organs, sinews, etc. But let’s do calculations on the conservative side and call this 40 lbs.
All of this dry solid matter is combustible.
Of course the “meat” portion is readily combustible.
Small bones (toes, fingers, forearm, lower leg, ribs) are combustible.
High density bones (skull, upper arm, upper leg, vertebrae, and pelvis) are of lower combustibility.
The “meat” is about 40 lbs (dry). The total skeleton is about 15 lbs (dry) with the combustible portion conservatively estimated at maybe 5 lbs (dry). Conservative calculations indicate results of at least 40 lbs + 5 lbs = 45 lbs of dry combustible matter per body. This discounts the lower combustible skull, vertebrae, pelvis and upper limbs. They indeed do burn but require somewhat longer exposure to high temperatures.
Pyre considerations:
As stated earlier the vertical configuration of a pyre is in my opinion crucial to the analysis.
In a mass cremation pyre the lower bodies nearest the wood fire hot coals (1100 F) would dehydrate first. If they dry sufficiently their dry mass (45 lbs) could ignite and become additional fuel contributing their heat to dehydrating the bodies in the upper portion of the pyre. If these lower bodies do ignite and burn they would eventually collapse thereby lowering the overall vertical dimension of the pyre bringing the remaining upper bodies closer to the hot coals.
Fuel volumes and masses:
About what is the volume of the 45 lbs of dry organic matter generated by the dehydration of a corpse?
The specific gravity of organic materials ranges from 1.0 to 1.2. Taking a middling value of 1.1 (seems fair) this works out to 62.4 lbs/ft3 * 1.1 = 68 lbs/ft3. Therefore the conservatively calculated volume of the dry matter is roughly 45/68 = 0.6 cubic foot (ft3).
If the pyre includes a total of say about 2000 bodies, they could potentially generate about 90,000 additional lbs (45 US tons) of fuel. At 0.6 ft3 per body * 2000 bodies = 1200 ft3 of additional dry organic matter. I believe the original thread indicated 480 ft3 * 0.5 airspace = 240 ft3 of wood. The dehydrated bodies volume therefore almost quintuple (5x) the volume of combustible wood (1200 / 240 = 5).
Conclusions:
Therefore the crucial point in my analysis is whether the initial 240 ft3 of wood is enough to dehydrate some of the lower elevation bodies in the bottom of the pyre sufficiently enough to allow for them to ignite. The dehydration and ignition of subsequently higher elevation layers of bodies could then continue in an upwards direction through the vertically configured pyre.
To calculate that only the wood contributes to the cremation is a remarkable over simplification. There may be other sources of combustibility.
Like I said in the first paragraph, I don’t like the original analysis as it completely misses some points in the mass cremation pyre analysis. It considers only the volume of wood as a potential source of heat. It does not include the generation of additional fuel, the vertical configuration of a pyre, the sequential combustion of a pyre, the combustion process of dehydration leading to dry matter leading to ignition, the distribution of temperature over the height of the pyre, nor changes in pyre configuration over time.
I still don’t have any idea if this is enough wood fuel to initiate combustion of the entire pyre, but any analysis of this sort must include, in my opinion, at least some acknowledgement of the above referenced points.
mscfs2
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 7
Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 8:53 am Download Post Post subject:
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Let's take a closer look at the initial geometric and dimensional information of the original post. I believe there is an alternate geometric configuration that more fully uses the given information and results in a more functional "roaster".
The initial conditions as stated in the original post are:
Quote:
....The cremating structure consisted of a roaster made from five or
six railroad rails on top of three rows of concrete pillars each 70 cm
high. The facility was 30 meters wide.
It plainly states the number of rails, 5 or 6. The original poster interpreted this to mean:
Quote:
The system with three parallel
tracks can only have two spaces between them, one track on either side
with the space between divided by the third rail.
I interpret this information a bit differently. I believe there are 5 or 6 rails ( lets say 6 for ease of this discussion) each about 30m long, 18 concrete support pillars at 70 cm height each, parallel rails separated by about 30 cm (1 foot), the pillars arranged in three rows of 6 in each row providing support at the end of each rail (6*2 = 12) and one pillar in the middle (6*1 = 6) of each rail ( near the 15 m mark).
This geometric configuration results in full use of the given information. It also creates a roaster that is 5 feet wide (6 parallel rails with 5 one foot separations between each rail). A roaster that is five feet wide certainly provides better support for bodies than the originally proposed roaster that is only 2 feet wide.
A 30 m rail does sound a little long, however I have personal experience in providing geotechnical engineering services for the construction of a railroad right of way that was being built with 24 m rails. I understand that in the USA standard rail lengths are 10m, 14m, and 24m. I also understand that rail manufacturers will make rails of darn near any custom length because the production method is a continuous extrusion process. Therefore, I do not find a 30 m rail length to be out of the realm of possibility.
As stated earlier, this geometric configuration results in a roaster of 5 feet width rather than 2 feet. This results in a 2 1/2 fold increase in the volume beneath the roaster. Maintaining the original stated criteria of 50% airspace for the wood material this results in an increase in volume of 2.5 fold (2.5x). Therefore the initial wood load is raised from 240 ft3 to 600 ft3. That is a huge increase in the btu available for dehydration.
mscfs2
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 7
Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 9:22 am Download Post Post subject:
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The original poster stated:
Quote:
Having seemingly seen it all in debating the cremation aspect of the Holocaust story I would recognize that as the classic 'Holocaust bodies burned like wood' hypothisis. That is the ultimate recourse defenders have to resort to.
Ah yes, HOLOCAUST BODIES BURNED LIKE WOOD. When all else fails that's the ultimate desperation.
mscfs2 replies:
Nowhere in my post did I state that "bodies would burn like wood". In fact I was rather careful in using terminology like dry organic matter, dry solids, dry solid matter, (wet), (dry), etc. Nowhere did I say corpses would burn like any type of wood. I did not imply it. The original poster inferred that statement and it is an improper and unsupported inference.
mscfs2
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 7
Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 11:40 am Download Post Post subject:
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For Hannover.
Sorry for the delay in response to your questions. I am involved in a project at work that requires me to be out of town. I am home on the weekends (at the most) until this project moves along a little further.
I have very limited time and opportunity at the current time to work on these posts. However, the post will pop to the top of the forum list as I make subsequent posts.
This is an interesting question that will take some time to develop an answer. Please give me time.
An interesting set of questions from me would be to ask if you think there is inadequate timber in eastern Poland? Do you think there was inadequate manpower available to the SS to perform the lumberjacking work? Do you think the road network in eastern Poland was inadequate to transport the timber from the cut site to the camp location if that was needed?
At this time I just have hunches, but in my opinion there is plenty of timber in eastern Poland. The SS had several hundred young men arriving daily on transports that might be used as slave labor. The road network was apparently sufficient to support a national economy of a somewhat modern European country.
As mentioned in my RODOH post # 1826, I tried to get in contact wish mscfs2 via PM. At that time Hargis still allowed the PM facility to all posters (he later restricted it to members of the "Revisionist" family, IIRC), and mscfs2 thus got the message. On 2 December 2004, I received the following e-mail message from him:
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:12:26 -0800 (PST)
From: [e-mail address omitted] Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: looking for mscfs2??
To: cortagravatas@yahoo.com
Roberto/Cortagravatas,
I am mscfs2 of The Revisionist Forum (TRF).
I am NOT a Holocaust revisionist.
I am NOT a Holocaust denier.
Quite the opposite, actually.
I am a geological engineer in the United States with a great interest in reading the history of WW2. During the past year I have become interested in reading of the Holocaust. I became aquainted with denial through a book by Michael Shermer. On a regular basis I visited TRF so as to gain an appreciation of the most current "arguments" of the deniers. I eventually registered at the site under the handle "mscfs2". (An odd handle indeed, but it stands for Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator # 2. It is simply a computer flight simulator that I used to play and this e-mail account and handle were readily available.)
This relationship with TRF did NOT last long. A forum member started a thread about burning Holocaust corpses (Treblinka I believe). His post was a shallow, half baked analysis developed from eyewitness testimony. The original poster had done a pathetic job of interpreting the given information. He also tried to develop an analysis of burning corpses that was severely flawed.
My original post was to suggest an alternate configuration of the "roaster" that used the given eyewitness information more fully. It also suggested that the original post was simplistic in its analysis of the burning of organic material on pyres. My "alternate configuration" post then came under broad attack even though not one single forum member could counter any of the specific statements I made in my posting. Hannover challenged me with several off topic questions and accused me of "dodging" his questions.
I prepared a multi-part engineering analysis that addressed the corpse burning question. If I remember correctly it had separate posts discussing:
1) roaster configuration
2) timber requirements to fire the roaster
3) manpower requirements to harvest the required amount of timber
4) security requirements to supervise the "lumberjack" kommando
5) transportation requirements to transport the cut timber
6) thermal characteristics of wood fires
7) thermal characteristics of the burning of corpses
My plan was to make sequential posts allowing time for counter arguments from board members between topics. I submitted the "timber requirement" analysis. It established the total timber requirement for firing the roaster as about 180 acres. That is about 0.3 square mile. Not even remotely close to the "vast deforestation" claim made by Hannover.
Of course the post is reviewed by a "Moderator" before posting. The Moderator accused me of performing an analysis of "modern timber harvesting" and refused to make my post public. It was deleted, or more correctly never saw the light of day. I submitted several demands to the "Moderator" that my "timber requirements" submission be posted and to let the board membership argue its merits. None of these requests saw the light of day. Within several days my account was also dead.
So much for the claim of fair and open debate.
Recently, an aquaintance saw mention of my handle (mscfs2) at a web site with a statement that a Roberto was trying unsuccessfully to contact me by e-mail. I recognized your handle from TRF. My aquaintance could not remember at which web site he had seen the post but wrote down and delivered to me the Cortagravatas e-mail address. My aquaintance also stated the topic had something to do with destruction of Holocaust bodies and The Revisionist Forum.
I know it has been months since my banning at TRF but I thought I should contact you. I hope this address is correct and still current.
[Name and e-mail address omitted, as I don’t have the sender’s authorization to make his name public.]
As I had suspected, mscfs2’s apparent failure to respond to his opponents’ later posts had been due not to his having given up the fight, but to what is the usual cause for such outcome on "Hannover" Hargis’ forum: cowardly censorship of an inconvenient poster, who was eventually banned.
What is more interesting, though, is that mscfs2, who is a geological engineer, had made a calculation of the timber requirements for the roasters at Treblinka which, if I understand his e-mail correctly, points to a much lower amount of wood than I calculated in my article about clip # 23 of the One Third of the Holocaust video. This calculation, if accurate, would confirm the assumption, expressed at the start of my article about clip # 25 of the same video, that my calculation of the required amount of wood is on the high side. According to this site, the estimated saw-log volume in a North American pine forest is 14.5 cords per acre, which would mean that the 180 acres calculated by mscfs2 correspond to 2,610 cords of wood. The amount I calculated in this article, 30.9 cords of pine wood per incineration or 23,175 cords for an assumed 750 incinerations of 1,000 corpses each, is almost 9 times higher. Even if they incinerated about 2,000 corpses at a time and thus required only 375 incinerations to burn 750,000 corpses, the amount of wood according to my calculation would still be more than 4 times higher than the amount calculated by mscfs2, assuming that he made his calculations for 750,000 corpses like I did.
It would be interesting to see how mscfs2 (who is identical with the Axis History Forum poster "Pangea" I mentioned in this article, by the way) arrived at his result and explained the technical plausibility thereof, which is why I hope that he will visit our blog for a discussion about this matter.
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