Just in case you were wondering...

...what scholarly pursuits holocaustresearchproject.org was up to, click here (or see this screenshot in case they have already changed it).

That, and the "re-establishment" of the old ARC site. The true site is, of course, available only here.

It will suffice to say that H.E.A.R.T.'s "ARC" still contains the fake materials (click here for more details).

This is exactly what I've been writing about all this time. They don't care about authenticity at all.

Chris Webb and Carmelo Lisciotto are not smart people, that much should be obvious by now.

What do deniers give each other for Christmas?

Though there's a school of radical revisionists which holds to the view that Christmas is in fact a gigantic Hoax perpetrated by the retail industry on the world every year, the fact remains that to the best of our knowledge, the majority of our erstwhile opponents, in print and online, celebrate Christmahannukwanzakaa. Well, maybe not the -hannukwanzakaa bit, but you know what I'm talking about.

Yes, it's that time of year, Yuletide Eve, when even diehard Holocaust deniers must surely be gathering round the chimney, not in order to examine it for any traces of carbonised corpses, but to await whatever it is Santa and his little helpers have brought the happy revisionist household that year. All of which begs the question: what could, would or should Holocaust deniers be getting for Christmas?

Answers below the fold...


For some, the answer's fairly easy. For others, we can only speculate.

We're pretty sure that IHR maven Greg Raven will be getting that cut-price bargain video of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes' fairytale wedding that the Church of Scientology must be marketing to their flock of sheep right about now.

IHR boss Mark Weber, meanwhile, is surely to be given his 25th 'how to complete your book manuscript' guide, seeing as how it's been only 25 years since he wrote to David Irving promising the revisionist blockbuster The Final Solution: Legend and Reality. And maybe a thesaurus as well.

Paul Grubach will get a letter-writing kit so he can practice the calligraphy of his signature for his next missive to a head-of-state or chief executive of an NGO.

Friedrich Paul Berg will be given his umpteenth model German truck to play with, though we also suspect that he may well be rewarded with a year-long prescription to anti-Alzheimer's drug Aricept.

David Irving, meanwhile, will surely get a copy of the critical edition of the Anne Frank Diary from daughter Jessica, a smack in the gob from Bente and his own TV series from Fox entitled Desperate Louse Lies. Without, we hasten to add, any sign of Teri Hatcher or Eva Longoria on-set. Dang!

Richard Krege will get a new lawnmower specially designed to trim in between the patio stones, or the Treblinka monument, so that it'll be dual-purpose.

Joe Bellinger gets a complete annotated and mistranslated set of the Talmud.

Christopher Bollyn is getting a downloaded copy of 'Loose Change' on a CD-ROM. And a Christmas card scrawled 'FUCK YOU' from his former buddies at AFP.

Ingrid Rimland will give hubby Ernst Zündel a matchbook with the ad saying "if you can draw Skippy, you can earn big money as an artist".

Ernst will give Ingrid "some good German black bread" and another yeat of not having to sleep with him.

Robert Faurisson, we're assured, will be receiving a signed first-edition of J-B. Peres' classic 1827 work How Napoleon Never Existed, Or, The Great Error, Source Of An Infinite Number Of Errors To Be Seen In The History Of The Nineteenth Century, which he will hate since it pre-dates his trademark 'Ajax method' by 150 years. But them's the breaks.

Apparently, Carlo Mattogno and Robert Faurisson stopped exchanging Christmas cards in 1995, but there's been no communication breakdown within the Mattogno family. This means that Mattogno's brother, Catholic fundamentalist antisemite Gian Pio, will no doubt be gifting his sibling yet another copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, this time in Polish, which will cause bro' Carlo to grit his teeth and make a wan but sickly smile in front of the aunts and uncles of the Mattogno clan, but which he will rush away the instant the family dinner is over to devour.

The rest of the Mattogno family have apparently clubbed together to get Carlo a barbecue grill to replace the one he set on fire accidentally conducting impromptu cremation experiments with salt beef, since this was the most Jewish meat he could think of trying to carbonise.

Jürgen Graf will find all the latest Ron Jeremy DVDs in his stocking, so that Graf can reassure himself that Jewish pornstars really do have bigger penises than he does.

Alas, poor Sylvia Stolz won't be getting what she wants for Weihnachten this year, a little (Horst) Mahler, and will have to make do with a black-white-red-painted dildo instead. Double alas, the patriotically-painted dildo will turn out to be a leftover from the days of the Kameradschaften so Stolz will try and take it back to the store in case Michael Kühnen sat on it once.

Germar Rudolf's another one who's spending Xmas behind bars, but thanks to his personal website, we know what he put on his wishlist long ago. Mainly really bad 80s pop music and oldies, so it's been decided chez Rudolf that the young boy needs livening up, and thus he'll be receiving Slayer's 'Reign in Blood' and Tool's 'Undertow' albums instead. To complement the Tool CD, he'll also be getting rear-opening pajamas.

Alexander Baron will get the new book 'How to Live on a Prison Diet'.

But let's not forget our online friends at alt.revisionism, the Cesspit and RODOH.

Scott Smith, our favourite denier and owner of RODOH, is probably getting another model German truck like his friend Freaky Freddy Berg.

Claudia Rothenbach is to get a gift certificate to pay for gender-reassignment surgery at Johns Hopkins.

A.S. Marques will be getting a case of King Oliver sardines.

RiverCola will be getting a bullet in the head followed by an exhaustive forensic examination by a neutral commission of investigators, who will then present the results to him in his coffin.

For SeymoreG, we've heard that Martha Stewart's Ephraimite Guide To Entertaining has been wrapped up and placed under the tree down under in New Zealand.

His fellow Kiwi Lurkerthe/rodohcodohwatchwatch is being given free psychiatric therapy.

For Herr Wilf 'neugierig' Heink, a set of rabbit hutches and some lettuce.

A crate of Sterno for Matt Giwer.

Tom Moran gets a set of teach-yourself language cassettes. In English.

New tinfoil and a special Xmassy tinsel variant for Scott Bradbury's hat.

IlluSionS667 is being abducted for a get-away-from-it-all holiday season break inside the alien mothership at Newschwabenland.

And finally, Jonny 'Hannover' Hargis, circus ringmaster of CODOH forum, is getting some very special gifts from the cast of The Wizard of Oz: a heart, a brain and some courage....


Merry Christmahannukwanzakaa everybody!

Not all is trash on the Cesspit

While looking through this thread of the RODOH forum’s Memory Hole section for censored posts of mine to be mentioned in the commentary to another of Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis’ mendacious victory dances that can be read in my RODOH post # 7717, I came upon several posts of mine that had been deleted or retained on the thread Laws of nature undo Holocaust story of the Cesspit. These posts that never saw the light of day – only the first message I posted on that thread made it – are recorded in my RODOH posts # 1813, # 1820, # 1821, # 1822, # 1823, # 1828, # 1829 and # 1830.

Read more!


I also found my reference, in RODOH post # 1825, to an interesting new character who, under the handle "mscfs2", had started posting on the "Laws of nature" thread, followed by a quote of this poster’s first message.

That message and the other messages by mscfs2 published on that thread will be quoted hereafter, not only because their quality contrasts with the trash written by his "Revisionist" opponents, but also because they suggest a technically knowledgeable person more than able to paint "Revisionist" pseudo-science into a corner.

mscfs2
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 7
Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 8:34 am Download Post Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In all fairness guys, I don’t like the original analysis. It misses some points in the mass cremation pyre scenario. A pyre has a vertical configuration (layers of bodies above wood) and in my opinion this is crucial to the analysis.

I apologize for the rather long post, but please bear with me.

First some basic facts:

A wood fire has a range of temperatures. The range is near 1100 F near the coals to about 300 F at the tip of the flame. All these temperatures exceed the boiling point of water (212 F). Therefore all materials within the flame would be undergoing dehydration. Down low near the 1100 F coals it would be more rapid. Up high (2 meters) it would be slower. But all corpses would be in the process of dehydration.

The human body (on average) is about 60% water by weight. If you assume 150 lb average adult then 150 *0.6 = 90 lbs water. 150 * 0.4 = 60 lb of solid matter.

The human skeleton is about 20% total body weight (wet). Therefore 150 lbs * 0.2 = 30 lbs (wet). Since bones contain somewhat less than 50% water content by weight 30 lbs of bones (wet) yields roughly 15 lbs of solid matter. (Astonishingly light weight)

With a total dry weight of 60 lbs, of which about 15 lbs is bone, this leaves about 45 lbs for muscles, organs, sinews, etc. But let’s do calculations on the conservative side and call this 40 lbs.

All of this dry solid matter is combustible.
Of course the “meat” portion is readily combustible.
Small bones (toes, fingers, forearm, lower leg, ribs) are combustible.
High density bones (skull, upper arm, upper leg, vertebrae, and pelvis) are of lower combustibility.

The “meat” is about 40 lbs (dry). The total skeleton is about 15 lbs (dry) with the combustible portion conservatively estimated at maybe 5 lbs (dry). Conservative calculations indicate results of at least 40 lbs + 5 lbs = 45 lbs of dry combustible matter per body. This discounts the lower combustible skull, vertebrae, pelvis and upper limbs. They indeed do burn but require somewhat longer exposure to high temperatures.

Pyre considerations:

As stated earlier the vertical configuration of a pyre is in my opinion crucial to the analysis.

In a mass cremation pyre the lower bodies nearest the wood fire hot coals (1100 F) would dehydrate first. If they dry sufficiently their dry mass (45 lbs) could ignite and become additional fuel contributing their heat to dehydrating the bodies in the upper portion of the pyre. If these lower bodies do ignite and burn they would eventually collapse thereby lowering the overall vertical dimension of the pyre bringing the remaining upper bodies closer to the hot coals.

Fuel volumes and masses:

About what is the volume of the 45 lbs of dry organic matter generated by the dehydration of a corpse?

The specific gravity of organic materials ranges from 1.0 to 1.2. Taking a middling value of 1.1 (seems fair) this works out to 62.4 lbs/ft3 * 1.1 = 68 lbs/ft3. Therefore the conservatively calculated volume of the dry matter is roughly 45/68 = 0.6 cubic foot (ft3).

If the pyre includes a total of say about 2000 bodies, they could potentially generate about 90,000 additional lbs (45 US tons) of fuel. At 0.6 ft3 per body * 2000 bodies = 1200 ft3 of additional dry organic matter. I believe the original thread indicated 480 ft3 * 0.5 airspace = 240 ft3 of wood. The dehydrated bodies volume therefore almost quintuple (5x) the volume of combustible wood (1200 / 240 = 5).

Conclusions:

Therefore the crucial point in my analysis is whether the initial 240 ft3 of wood is enough to dehydrate some of the lower elevation bodies in the bottom of the pyre sufficiently enough to allow for them to ignite. The dehydration and ignition of subsequently higher elevation layers of bodies could then continue in an upwards direction through the vertically configured pyre.

To calculate that only the wood contributes to the cremation is a remarkable over simplification. There may be other sources of combustibility.

Like I said in the first paragraph, I don’t like the original analysis as it completely misses some points in the mass cremation pyre analysis. It considers only the volume of wood as a potential source of heat. It does not include the generation of additional fuel, the vertical configuration of a pyre, the sequential combustion of a pyre, the combustion process of dehydration leading to dry matter leading to ignition, the distribution of temperature over the height of the pyre, nor changes in pyre configuration over time.

I still don’t have any idea if this is enough wood fuel to initiate combustion of the entire pyre, but any analysis of this sort must include, in my opinion, at least some acknowledgement of the above referenced points.

mscfs2
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 7
Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 8:53 am Download Post Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's take a closer look at the initial geometric and dimensional information of the original post. I believe there is an alternate geometric configuration that more fully uses the given information and results in a more functional "roaster".

The initial conditions as stated in the original post are:

Quote:

....The cremating structure consisted of a roaster made from five or
six railroad rails on top of three rows of concrete pillars each 70 cm
high. The facility was 30 meters wide.


It plainly states the number of rails, 5 or 6. The original poster interpreted this to mean:

Quote:
The system with three parallel
tracks can only have two spaces between them, one track on either side
with the space between divided by the third rail.


I interpret this information a bit differently. I believe there are 5 or 6 rails ( lets say 6 for ease of this discussion) each about 30m long, 18 concrete support pillars at 70 cm height each, parallel rails separated by about 30 cm (1 foot), the pillars arranged in three rows of 6 in each row providing support at the end of each rail (6*2 = 12) and one pillar in the middle (6*1 = 6) of each rail ( near the 15 m mark).

This geometric configuration results in full use of the given information. It also creates a roaster that is 5 feet wide (6 parallel rails with 5 one foot separations between each rail). A roaster that is five feet wide certainly provides better support for bodies than the originally proposed roaster that is only 2 feet wide.

A 30 m rail does sound a little long, however I have personal experience in providing geotechnical engineering services for the construction of a railroad right of way that was being built with 24 m rails. I understand that in the USA standard rail lengths are 10m, 14m, and 24m. I also understand that rail manufacturers will make rails of darn near any custom length because the production method is a continuous extrusion process. Therefore, I do not find a 30 m rail length to be out of the realm of possibility.

As stated earlier, this geometric configuration results in a roaster of 5 feet width rather than 2 feet. This results in a 2 1/2 fold increase in the volume beneath the roaster. Maintaining the original stated criteria of 50% airspace for the wood material this results in an increase in volume of 2.5 fold (2.5x). Therefore the initial wood load is raised from 240 ft3 to 600 ft3. That is a huge increase in the btu available for dehydration.

mscfs2
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 7
Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 9:22 am Download Post Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The original poster stated:

Quote:

Having seemingly seen it all in debating the cremation aspect of the Holocaust story I would recognize that as the classic 'Holocaust bodies burned like wood' hypothisis. That is the ultimate recourse defenders have to resort to.

Ah yes, HOLOCAUST BODIES BURNED LIKE WOOD. When all else fails that's the ultimate desperation.

mscfs2 replies:

Nowhere in my post did I state that "bodies would burn like wood". In fact I was rather careful in using terminology like dry organic matter, dry solids, dry solid matter, (wet), (dry), etc. Nowhere did I say corpses would burn like any type of wood. I did not imply it. The original poster inferred that statement and it is an improper and unsupported inference.

mscfs2
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 7
Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 11:40 am Download Post Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For Hannover.

Sorry for the delay in response to your questions. I am involved in a project at work that requires me to be out of town. I am home on the weekends (at the most) until this project moves along a little further.

I have very limited time and opportunity at the current time to work on these posts. However, the post will pop to the top of the forum list as I make subsequent posts.

This is an interesting question that will take some time to develop an answer. Please give me time.

An interesting set of questions from me would be to ask if you think there is inadequate timber in eastern Poland? Do you think there was inadequate manpower available to the SS to perform the lumberjacking work? Do you think the road network in eastern Poland was inadequate to transport the timber from the cut site to the camp location if that was needed?

At this time I just have hunches, but in my opinion there is plenty of timber in eastern Poland. The SS had several hundred young men arriving daily on transports that might be used as slave labor. The road network was apparently sufficient to support a national economy of a somewhat modern European country.

As mentioned in my RODOH post # 1826, I tried to get in contact wish mscfs2 via PM. At that time Hargis still allowed the PM facility to all posters (he later restricted it to members of the "Revisionist" family, IIRC), and mscfs2 thus got the message. On 2 December 2004, I received the following e-mail message from him:

Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:12:26 -0800 (PST)
From: [e-mail address omitted] Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: looking for mscfs2??
To: cortagravatas@yahoo.com

Roberto/Cortagravatas,

I am mscfs2 of The Revisionist Forum (TRF).
I am NOT a Holocaust revisionist.
I am NOT a Holocaust denier.
Quite the opposite, actually.

I am a geological engineer in the United States with a great interest in reading the history of WW2. During the past year I have become interested in reading of the Holocaust. I became aquainted with denial through a book by Michael Shermer. On a regular basis I visited TRF so as to gain an appreciation of the most current "arguments" of the deniers. I eventually registered at the site under the handle "mscfs2". (An odd handle indeed, but it stands for Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator # 2. It is simply a computer flight simulator that I used to play and this e-mail account and handle were readily available.)

This relationship with TRF did NOT last long. A forum member started a thread about burning Holocaust corpses (Treblinka I believe). His post was a shallow, half baked analysis developed from eyewitness testimony. The original poster had done a pathetic job of interpreting the given information. He also tried to develop an analysis of burning corpses that was severely flawed.

My original post was to suggest an alternate configuration of the "roaster" that used the given eyewitness information more fully. It also suggested that the original post was simplistic in its analysis of the burning of organic material on pyres. My "alternate configuration" post then came under broad attack even though not one single forum member could counter any of the specific statements I made in my posting. Hannover challenged me with several off topic questions and accused me of "dodging" his questions.

I prepared a multi-part engineering analysis that addressed the corpse burning question. If I remember correctly it had separate posts discussing:

1) roaster configuration
2) timber requirements to fire the roaster
3) manpower requirements to harvest the required amount of timber
4) security requirements to supervise the "lumberjack" kommando
5) transportation requirements to transport the cut timber
6) thermal characteristics of wood fires
7) thermal characteristics of the burning of corpses

My plan was to make sequential posts allowing time for counter arguments from board members between topics. I submitted the "timber requirement" analysis. It established the total timber requirement for firing the roaster as about 180 acres. That is about 0.3 square mile. Not even remotely close to the "vast deforestation" claim made by Hannover.

Of course the post is reviewed by a "Moderator" before posting. The Moderator accused me of performing an analysis of "modern timber harvesting" and refused to make my post public. It was deleted, or more correctly never saw the light of day. I submitted several demands to the "Moderator" that my "timber requirements" submission be posted and to let the board membership argue its merits. None of these requests saw the light of day. Within several days my account was also dead.

So much for the claim of fair and open debate.

Recently, an aquaintance saw mention of my handle (mscfs2) at a web site with a statement that a Roberto was trying unsuccessfully to contact me by e-mail. I recognized your handle from TRF. My aquaintance could not remember at which web site he had seen the post but wrote down and delivered to me the Cortagravatas e-mail address. My aquaintance also stated the topic had something to do with destruction of Holocaust bodies and The Revisionist Forum.

I know it has been months since my banning at TRF but I thought I should contact you. I hope this address is correct and still current.

[Name and e-mail address omitted, as I don’t have the sender’s authorization to make his name public.]

As I had suspected, mscfs2’s apparent failure to respond to his opponents’ later posts had been due not to his having given up the fight, but to what is the usual cause for such outcome on "Hannover" Hargis’ forum: cowardly censorship of an inconvenient poster, who was eventually banned.

What is more interesting, though, is that mscfs2, who is a geological engineer, had made a calculation of the timber requirements for the roasters at Treblinka which, if I understand his e-mail correctly, points to a much lower amount of wood than I calculated in my article about clip # 23 of the One Third of the Holocaust video. This calculation, if accurate, would confirm the assumption, expressed at the start of my article about clip # 25 of the same video, that my calculation of the required amount of wood is on the high side. According to this site, the estimated saw-log volume in a North American pine forest is 14.5 cords per acre, which would mean that the 180 acres calculated by mscfs2 correspond to 2,610 cords of wood. The amount I calculated in this article, 30.9 cords of pine wood per incineration or 23,175 cords for an assumed 750 incinerations of 1,000 corpses each, is almost 9 times higher. Even if they incinerated about 2,000 corpses at a time and thus required only 375 incinerations to burn 750,000 corpses, the amount of wood according to my calculation would still be more than 4 times higher than the amount calculated by mscfs2, assuming that he made his calculations for 750,000 corpses like I did.

It would be interesting to see how mscfs2 (who is identical with the Axis History Forum poster "Pangea" I mentioned in this article, by the way) arrived at his result and explained the technical plausibility thereof, which is why I hope that he will visit our blog for a discussion about this matter.

Censorship at Blogger

Today we have received this notice:

From: Blogger Help [mailto:support@blogger.com]
Sent: 19 December 2006 20:01
To: [...]
Subject: [#93976751] notice regarding holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com

Hello,

We'd like to inform you that we've received a complaint that your blog
holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com contains confidential information.
Please note that our Terms of Service prohibit posting confidential items
on your blog. Accordingly, we have had to remove the content in question.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more details:
http://www.blogger.com/terms.g

Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely,
The Blogger Team

We found that a posting about Carmelo Lisciotto's spamming and impersonation has been deleted. Now it is available here.

The posting did not contain any information that is not publicly available, therefore it contained no confidential information.

I should note that Blogger censors still haven't deleted Carmelo's impersonation blogs and profile, despite my request and despite their (false, as it turns out) assurance that they "take impersonation very seriously". Yet they promptly removed an innocent posting without even consulting us.

It is also notable that H.E.A.R.T. thug Carmelo is trying to make the slate clean again. Too late.

If you're worried about Blogger censorship, you can write to support@blogger.com and tell them what you think.

Still No Sign of Intestinal Fortitude

Well, my most recent post about Jonnie Hargis must have gotten to him, because he began this thread about me.

How nice it is to control one's life and to own one so thoroughly.

But Jonnie still won't post about me during work hours.

What a poor, stupid, cowardly little man.

The World's Worst Librarian

Yesterday, I fired off this e-mail to Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis, and now I'm just making good on my promise. Enjoy.

Read more!

Mr. Hargis,

You changed the below thread to the following title: "Jewish Quarterly Review 1935 -1972, no mention of genocide"

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3836

I have appended below all the references to either the word "holocaust" or "genocide" between 1935 and 1972 for your review.

You have until these evening to retract your remarks. Otherwise, I and my colleagues will publish your gaffe on the HC blog.

Yours truly,
Andrew E. Mathis (Dr.)

CC: Sergey Romanov, Nick Terry, Roberto Muehlenkamp, who will take screenshots for use on the blog.

Reviewed Work(s): The Future of the American Jew by Mordecai M. Kaplan
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 39, No. 2 (Oct., 1948),
pp. 181-204
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...94810%292%
3A39%3A2%3C181%3AFOTAJ%3E2.0.CO%3B2-6
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Citation

91% The General Problems of the Judeo-Romance in the Light of the
Maqre Dardeqe
Giuliana Fiorentino
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 42, No. 1 (Jul., 1951),
pp. 57-77
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...95107%292%
3A42%3A1%3C57%3ATGPOTJ%3E2.0.CO%3B2-N
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91% Our Historic Horizons
Abraham A. Neuman
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 45, No. 4, Tercentenary
Issue (Apr., 1955), pp. 297-317
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...95504%292%
3A45%3A4%3C297%3AOHH%3E2.0.CO%3B2-Y
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73% Review: [untitled]
Author(s) of Review: Solomon Grayzel
Reviewed Work(s): The Church and the Jewish People by Göte Hedenquist
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 46, No. 1 (Jul., 1955),
pp. 72-78
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...95507%292%
3A46%3A1%3C72%3ATCATJP%3E2.0.CO%3B2-A
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73% Review: The Tosaphists
Author(s) of Review: Irving A. Agus
Reviewed Work(s): ‮בעלי התוספות, תולדותיהם, חבוריהם, ושיטתם‬ by ‮אפרים
א. אורבך‬
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 46, No. 4 (Apr., 1956),
pp. 366-378
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...95604%292%
3A46%3A4%3C366%3ATT%3E2.0.CO%3B2-0
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91% Critical Notes
Zosa Szajkowski; Sidney B. Hoenig; Albert Mordell
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 49, No. 1 (Jul., 1958),
pp. 63-83
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...95807%292%
3A49%3A1%3C63%3ACN%3E2.0.CO%3B2-R
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92% Jewish Rights in Palestine
Arnold J. Toynbee
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 52, No. 1 (Jul., 1961),
pp. 1-11
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...96107%292%
3A52%3A1%3C1%3AJRIP%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W
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91% The Dates of the Birth and the Crucifixion of Jesus. The
Crucifixion, a Libelous Accusation against the Jews
Solomon Zeitlin
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 55, No. 1 (Jul., 1964),
pp. 1-22
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...96407%292%
3A55%3A1%3C1%3ATDOTBA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-U
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73% Review: The Purpose and Meaning of Jewish Existence
Author(s) of Review: Meir Ben-Horin
Reviewed Work(s): The Purpose and Meaning of Jewish Existence: A
People in the Image of God by Mordecai M. Kaplan
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 55, No. 3 (Jan., 1965),
pp. 260-266
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...96501%292%
3A55%3A3%3C260%3ATPAMOJ%3E2.0.CO%3B2-K
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91% The Ecumenical Council Vatican II and the Jews
Solomon Zeitlin
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 56, No. 2 (Oct., 1965),
pp. 93-111
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...96510%292%
3A56%3A2%3C93%3ATECVIA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W
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73% Review: [untitled]
Author(s) of Review: Elias Schulman
Reviewed Work(s): The Pogroms in Ukraine in 1919 by Elias Tcherikower
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 57, No. 2 (Oct., 1966),
pp. 159-166
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...96610%292%
3A57%3A2%3C159%3ATPIUI1%3E2.0.CO%3B2-4
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73% Review: This People Israel
Author(s) of Review: Paul Seligman
Reviewed Work(s): This People Israel: The Meaning of Jewish Existence
by Leo Baeck; Albert H. Friedlander
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 57, No. 3 (Jan., 1967),
pp. 242-246
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...96701%292%
3A57%3A3%3C242%3ATPI%3E2.0.CO%3B2-M
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74% Review: [untitled]
Author(s) of Review: Ben Zion Bokser
Reviewed Work(s): Judaism in a Christian World by Robert Gordis
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 58, No. 1 (Jul., 1967),
pp. 75-77
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...96707%292%
3A58%3A1%3C75%3AJIACW%3E2.0.CO%3B2-2
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74% Review: [untitled]
Author(s) of Review: Elias Schulman
Reviewed Work(s): Analytical Franco-Jewish Gazetteer 1939-1945 by Z.
Szajkowski
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 58, No. 4 (Apr., 1968),
pp. 344-347
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...96804%292%
3A58%3A4%3C344%3AAFG1%3E2.0.CO%3B2-1
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91% Vatican II and the Jews
Ben Zion Bokser
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 59, No. 2 (Oct., 1968),
pp. 136-151
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...96810%292%
3A59%3A2%3C136%3AVIATJ%3E2.0.CO%3B2-L
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73% Review: A Volume of Biblical Essays
Author(s) of Review: Robert Gordis
Reviewed Work(s): Four Strange Books of the Bible by Elias Bickerman
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 59, No. 3 (Jan., 1969),
pp. 237-243
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...96901%292%
3A59%3A3%3C237%3AAVOBE%3E2.0.CO%3B2-H
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23% Books Received
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 60, No. 3 (Jan., 1970),
pp. 264-270
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...97001%292%
3A60%3A3%3C264%3ABR%3E2.0.CO%3B2-G
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23% Books Received
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 62, No. 1 (Jul., 1971),
pp. 72-76
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...97107%292%
3A62%3A1%3C72%3ABR%3E2.0.CO%3B2-Y
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23% Books Received
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 62, No. 4 (Apr., 1972),
pp. 322-330
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...97204%292%
3A62%3A4%3C322%3ABR%3E2.0.CO%3B2-B
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79% Review: [untitled]
Author(s) of Review: John Jay Hughes
Reviewed Work(s): The Silence of Pius XII by Carlo Falconi; Bernard
Wall
The Jewish Quarterly Review > New Ser., Vol. 63, No. 1 (Jul., 1972),
pp. 80-85
Stable URL: links.jstor.org/sici?sici...97207%292%
3A63%3A1%3C80%3ATSOPX%3E2.0.CO%3B2-8
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A "revisionist" has a wet dream

If the holocaust industry throws the lightest bone now, it would topple the whole monolith and that would lead to the destruction of the so-called "Jewish state" within a year.

Not only German "reparations" would stop overnight amidst immense bitterness, but Americans would refuse to give more credit to such a morally ugly entity that insults the whole humanity. And because the illegal "state" of Israel is build on racket rather than economy, it would become unable to sustain the loss of its parasitic pumps glued on the back of mankind. The whole "country" will stop soon, including the military.

Then, the world would be liberated. That time shall come.

CODOH truly has gathered all the filth...

Another "somewhat honest" denier

Am I a holocaust sceptic? Actually, I am not a holocaust sceptic. I unreservedly deny that there was any program to persecute the Jews. Scepticism does not enter into it. I know for a fact that the Jews got everything they deserved. Persecution does not even rate in this endeavour. The 'German' Jews, if I were in charge, would have been executed, every single one of them, Man. women & child, if they were proved to be traitors to Germany. The rest I would have put in prison camps. Why? Because I am no fool. I know what they were up to, sabotage and filthy dirty behaviour, just as they are promulgating in the United States of America and globally today. I make no apologies for it. Paul Grubach has it wrong. He is too soft on the Jew! Like Pastor Wickstom and Pastor Jones, every Jew needs to be killed. I am a Christian, I hate, Like David, King of Israel, every Jew with a PERFECT HATRED.

[...]

The Jews, every single one, are devils. The spawn of Satan & Eve. You who are saved know this, you who do not are lost. I am not speaking to you cowardly lot. You may as well leave the thread and go watch TV, you know how much you love the Jew tube.
I am a Christian, I believe the bible. I believe Jesus. I am heading off to eternal life. The rest are heading off to hell.

Ah good, I got that off my chest. Time for a cuppa tea.

This guy is for real, BTW. At the Cesspit he is known as "kiwichap".

H.E.A.R.T.'s spamming campaign

Those of you still interested in this topic can click here.

H.E.A.R.T. as an educational resource

Earlier materials about H.E.A.R.T. at this blog:

H.E.A.R.T. defenders and their methods

H.E.A.R.T. defenders and their methods (cont.)

On the demise of deathcamps.org: how fakes and arrogance killed a great undertaking

---

One of my colleagues, who will not be named here, has called this to my attention.

Recently at the H.E.A.R.T. site a "Holocaust glossary" went up, authored by a certain "CL". It is rather funny - it doesn't even contain an entry for Auschwitz. It does for Birkenau, though, but claims that "[f]our purpose built gas chambers and crematoria were eventually functioning in the camp". The author is blisfully unaware of the fact that the number of the chambers was higher than than number of crematoria - each crematorium eventually had several gas chambers (Krema II and III gas chambers were eventually divided into two, summing up to 4 GCs for these two crematoria; Krema IV and V contained at least 2 gas chambers each from the beginning), plus there were 6 gas chambers in the Bunkers (which belonged to Birkenau).

The most humorous entry is about Hitler:



Not only he is called "Adolph", his date of birth is given as his date of death!

Some "education"!

Read more!

---

In other news: "someone" has been spamming Wikipedia with H.E.A.R.T. ads. I think I know who this "someone" is ;-)

Update: since "CL" is currently monitoring this blog, the "Hitler" mistakes have been immediately corrected. Let's see when he adds Auschwitz and corrects his Birkenau entry :-)

Update 2: since "CL" is reading us anyway, he should also correct more silly mistakes, like:

Extermination camp

A location to which Jews and others were deported, in order to be executed by efficient mass assembly-line killing methods. The camps, Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka, were located in occupied Poland.

Where are Auschwitz and Majdanek?

Belzec

One of the four Polish death camps.

Just four? Really? Are you a closet denier, or something?

Update 3: the Wikipedia pages have been deleted by "Holocaust_Research_Team"'s request. The background is this: "Holocaust_Research_Team" began spamming Holocaust-related Wiki entries with ads like this one (see the complete list):

There is an excellent online research for studying the Holocaust and all related information. http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ H.E.A.R.T Holocaust Education & Archive Research Team Their Mission: Today there are many resources available for those wishing to learn more of what the world has come to know as "The Holocaust" - the planned extermination of entire ethnic, religious, political, and other groups by the government of a sovereign state, Germany, and her allies during the years 1933 -1945. Memorials, museums, and sufficient books to fill entire libraries are devoted to the subject. But the advent of the internet has created a new, globally accessible source of information on the Holocaust. Some of this information is valuable, often unique. Much of it, poorly researched and sourced, is not. The hateful writings emanating from the twisted minds of those who would deny the reality of what is irrefutable are much worse.

He was repeatedly warned about spamming, as was evident from his talk page, the screenshot of which you can find here. Embarrassed, "Holocaust_Research_Team" tried to erase his talk page, but was told not to, by admins. It is also evident from his history page, the screenshot of which can be found here. Then "Holocaust_Research_Team" requested the deletion of his talk page, and his wish was granted. And the deletion log of his user page states that the reason for deletion was "Blatant advertising" (screenshot).

Then our good friend from H.E.A.R.T. created a new account, "HolocaustResearchProject". And immediately started adding his links again, and again he was warned to stop advertising (also look here (screenshot)). In fact, currently all of his edits have been reverted.

Update 4: Some more details. Our H.E.A.R.T. "friends" also posted from this IP address (as has been discussed here (screenshot)).

Update 5: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org has been blacklisted (screenshot).

Update 6: The link in the German version has been inserted from IP 198.22.153.10, belonging to Pegasystems Inc. (101 Main Street , Cambridge, MA). Carmelo Lisciotto works at Pegasystems.

Update 7: IP address from update 4, 71.243.87.210, is from Boston, MA according to our blog counter:

Host Name pool-71-243-87-210.bos.east.verizon.net
IP Address 71.243.87.210
Country United States
Region Massachusetts
City Boston
ISP Verizon Internet Services Inc

I.e., it is simply Carmelo Lisciotto spamming from home, rather than from work.

H.E.A.R.T. defenders and their methods (cont.)

"In response" to my posting about the H.E.A.R.T. defenders and their methods, one of the culprits ("Robert James Jones JR.") posted the following links:

http://defeat2jews.blogspot.com/2006/11/how-to-infiltrate-and-destroy-holocaust.html

http://promoteholocaustdenial.blogspot.com/2006/11/holohoax-and-jews-still-controlling.html

Again, these need no comment, but I'll just copy the contents in case the culprit decides to delete them.
Read more!

How to Infiltrate and Destroy Holocaust Websites and Destroy the Jewish Conspiracy!

To my many ardent fans on the Internet and most especially my Blogger fans.

Most of you know of me from my infamous exploits infiltrating Pro-Holocaust Websites and Web Groups, and for my never-ending battle against Yad Vashem and the Jewish Conspiracy.

My good friends David Irving and my associate Nick Terry have spent many years disgusing ourselves as Holocaust sympathizers. We've lured in suspected Jews and Jewish controlled groups by playing ourselves as Anti-Revisionists and fighters of denial when nothing could be further from the truth.

Nick Terry has especially played a key role in bringing down the Jews and the jew controlled media. His work at Colleges in London where's he's played the role of Historian have lent legitimacy to our effort and helped us gain secret access to the most secretive of plans that the Jewish conspirators have hatched.

We promise all of you that we will continue our work against the Jews and their allies, we will attack anyone who protects the Jews and their filthy lies.

We ask for your support in David Irvings great mission, his website can be found here: www.fpp.co.uk

David has been a true inspiration for Nick Terry and for myself.

Thank you and keep up the fight against the Jewish Conspiracy. End the Holo-Hoax!

Sergey Romanov
Jew Hater and Destroyer of Anything Pro-Holocaust
[email]

Posted by Sergey Romanov at 8:10 AM

http://defeat2jews.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2006-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2007-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=1

http://promoteholocaustdenial.blogspot.com/

The Holohoax and Jews Still Controlling the World!

Hey everyone,

In between spending our time infiltrating holocaust websites and posting slander and filth on our many blogs, one of our key revisionist blogs being http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com ,
this is the blog where we pretend to be debunking denier sites, it's really fun suckering in these Jews and their supporters, it also makes a great tool to convince the Zionists, and Holohoaxers that we are really on thier side and believe in there fake claims about the holocaust.

Everyone knows the holocaust never happend it's all a pack of lies, David Irving is a hero to our cause.

Nick Terry and Sergey Romanov

Posted by Sergey Romanov at 7:42 AM 0 comments

Tuesday, November 14, 2006
How to Infiltrate and Destroy Holocaust Websites and Destroy the Jewish Conspiracy!

To my many ardent fans on the Internet and most especially my Blogger fans.

Most of you know of me from my infamous exploits infiltrating Pro-Holocaust Websites and Web Groups, and for my never-ending battle against Yad Vashem and the Jewish Conspiracy.

My good friends David Irving and my associate Nick Terry have spent many years disgusing ourselves as Holocaust sympathizers. We've lured in suspected Jews and Jewish controlled groups by playing ourselves as Anti-Revisionists and fighters of denial when nothing could be further from the truth.

Nick Terry has especially played a key role in bringing down the Jews and the jew controlled media. His work at Colleges in London where's he's played the role of Historian have lent legitimacy to our effort and helped us gain secret access to the most secretive of plans that the Jewish conspirators have hatched.

We promise all of you that we will continue our work against the Jews and their allies, we will attack anyone who protects the Jews and their filthy lies.

We ask for your support in David Irvings great mission, his website can be found here: www.fpp.co.uk

David has been a true inspiration for Nick Terry and for myself.

Thank you and keep up the fight against the Jewish Conspiracy. End the Holo-Hoax!

Sergey Romanov
Jew Hater and Destroyer of Anything Pro-Holocaust
[email]

Posted by Sergey Romanov at 8:10 AM 0 comments

http://defeat2jews.blogspot.com/

Tuesday, November 14, 2006
End the Zionist Lies

The Jews are the evil of the world!

Posted by Sergey Romanov at 7:52 AM 0 commentsTuesday, November 14, 2006
End the Zionist Lies

The Jews are the evil of the world!

Posted by Sergey Romanov at 7:52 AM 0 comments

http://nojewishlies.blogspot.com/

Once again you can see Carmelo Lisciotto's "fingerprints". The fingerprints of H.E.A.R.T.S's representative. Make up your mind about the credibilitiy of www.HolocaustResearchProject.org.

Update: the profile of the impersonator is at http://beta.blogger.com/profile/18230340736316856245

On Blogger Since November 2006

Sergey Romanov
About Me
I hate Jews and HoloHoaxers
Interests
Jew Hating
Blogs
Blog Name Team Members
Nick & Sergey proving the Holocaust never happened
How to defeat Pro-Holocaust Groups
End the Jewish Lies

H.E.A.R.T. defenders and their methods

Recently we've been getting some of the most pornographic, vile, vulgar and libelous messages we've ever seen, both on the blog and by e-mail.

Ironically, these messages were not from our Nazi opponents, who sometimes stoop to this level, but not that often.

They were left by defenders of so-called "H.E.A.R.T." ("Holocaust Education & Archive Research Team", http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org), and all this followed my exposure of H.E.A.R.T. founder Chris Webb's key role in demise of deathcamps.org (and intrinsic lack of credibility of his new venture).

Below I will quote some of these messages by a H.E.A.R.T. representative and a H.E.A.R.T. defender (who may be one and the same person).

But if you wish to avoid feeling dirty, better skip this posting. Consider yourself warned.

Read more!

According to whois, holocaustresearchproject.org domain is registered by a certain Carmelo Lisciotto. Lisciotto is a former ARC member, who, according to my conversations with one "neutral" (i.e., not taking sides) ARC member, was forced to leave the group because of an internal conflict.

When ARC broke up, Chris Webb apparently immediately contacted Lisciotto to use him as a webmaster for his new H.E.A.R.T. group.

Some time before my posting, I contacted Lisciotto, and some reciprocal taunting ensued, which later grew into a slightly more constructive discussion, but only for a very short time. When Lisciotto issued a veiled threat that he, knowing some people at Google, can "have sites added or removed almost at will" (in the search engine database), of course, I promised to publish his e-mail if anything happens, after which an accusation that "[m]aking threats is childish" followed (apparently, Lisciotto didn't see any irony here). The next (unprovoked) message was:

dude you must be gay....

Talk about childish behavior.

After the posting was made, and the link was sent to several relevant people (including some notable Holocaust scholars), Lisciotto basically went nuts and posted the following:

Hey Idiot,
Does posting peoples names on blogs like a silly little faggot from where ever the fuck you are from make you happy?
I think your daddy must have stuck his finger up your ass way too many times when you were a child.

If you wish to knock on another website fine, when you start publishing peoples names and copies of emails that were never meant for public circulation you've crossed the line.

You, Nick terry and the other blogging faggots need to cut the shit and get on with your lives.

If you meet me in person you will be doing a lot of apologizing that I can assure you.
-Carmelo

After realizing that he had sent his bigoted rant accidentally to a large group of people, including serious mainstream scholars, he was quick to issue an "apology", though the deed was done and couldn't be reverted.

That wasn't enough for Lisciotto, who, posting anonymously as "Holoscholar" has left the following comment under the post in question:

Hey Sergey, do you ever spend time with a cock up your ass?

He quickly deleted it, but, of course, all comments also arrive to us by e-mail, so it was rather pointless.

Lisciotto's obsession with "gays", "faggots" and "cocks up asses" may be explained rather easily (Usenet remembers everything...), and it shows him to be a hypocrite (especially considering his political conservatism and alleged Christianity).

Since "Holoscholar's" blog is set up as an official H.E.A.R.T. outlet, it is fair to say that he (Lisciotto) is a H.E.A.R.T. representative.

Now you can judge H.E.A.R.T.'s credibility also by the words of its representative.

Apparently realizing that he is harming his cause more than helping it, "Holoscholar" has disappeared from the thread in question. Instead, a certain "Robert James Jones JR." appeared (account created in October, obviously specifically to troll at this blog). Judging by the style, and by the fact that nobody but Lisciotto would have a greater motive to troll here, I suspect just who that "Robert James Jones JR." is. But judge for yourself.

RJJR began spamming the thread with libelous accusations, which really need no comment. Here are some of them:

mr sergee I've recieved more reports of other Holocaust Survivors you have abused and degraded. Is this a habit with you?

Sergey Romanov the abuser of innocent Holocaust victims.

Truly a disgusting man you are. Does Nick Terry also abuse holocaust victims and survivors?

Quite a disgusting group and digusting blog this http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/ is....

Again you have made a post about having a "cock in your ass" that is how many post that YOU HAVE MADE that have that line reprinted in it.
Is that you subtle way of being an exhibitionist?

Mr sergeee Mr sergee....

It is so interesting to watch you 3 idiots attempt to bait me into a debate.

The original post shows Sergee and Nic terri getting "kicked out" of the ARC group.

(It shows nothing of the sort, BTW.)

VERIFIED DENIER and ABUSER of HOLOCAUST SURVIORS namely Sergey Romanov

They clearly don't want you or to be associated with your HOLOCUST DENIAL BLOG http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/

How many more Jews and Holocaust survivors will you attack and abuse Mr. Sergey Romanov?
How much more suffering will you and Nick Terry of http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/ cause to the victims of the holocaust with your revisionist lies???
The three of you should combine your IQ's and come up as a single idiot and stead of three. It would be more economical, and the cock would then be in all your asses :)

It is my understanding that this Neo Nazi Sergey Romanov even went so far as to publicly attack a Holocaust Survivor and belittle and degrade the man. All of this for what end?
What is the purpose of all of this Facist style hatred?

http://Holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com reads like a chapter of DER STURMER.

Is sergee mr Streicher now?

Such a den of iniquity as this shameful lying blog is a scar of all those who choose to respect the victims of the Holocaust.

It should be fairly obvious as to the reason that Nick Terry Sergey Romanov were kicked out of the a r c webgroup, they were exposed for being deniers, and holding memberships in revisionist organizations against the charter of the arc board. Thus they were shown the door. That then spurred this attacking revisionist block article that here on this revisionist blog http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/

Certainly I have never come across such a vipers nest of holocaust denial and revision as this blog http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/

I feel very sorry for you mr terri and mr sergee that you would stoop to such low levels and attack a holocaust treasure for your twisted goals.

May I ask you one question? Do you make some monies from this type of activities? Why do you put so much effort into destruction? Did not the Nazi's do enough of that on their own? Or are you part of that mindset only hiding it so well to trick people?

But the venom you unleash is self evident and one doesn't need a bloodhound to smell the that there is most definitely something fishy about your group of people mr sergee and mr terri.

Hiding behind the guise of fighting holocaust denial when your true intentions is rewrite truth is clearly shown

Etc., etc., etc.

Now, there are two options. Either this is the same H.E.A.R.T. representative - and then what this tells us about this group? Or this is an "average" H.E.A.R.T. defender, which also doesn't reflect well on the credibility of the above group.

---

Later developments: H.E.A.R.T. defenders and their methods (cont.).

My, oh my

Roberto single-handedly crushes that cesspit known as Stormfront.

I especially liked this bit from pompous ass with the nickname "SirMosley":

(impossible, of course, since the 2km2 pits, once dug, are visible 24-7).

Almost nobody would expect high intelligence from a WN, but, frankly, I expect even a schoolboy to know that, as Roberto pointed out, 2200 m² equals 0.0022 km²

A note for the folks at the Cesspit

… can be found here .

Who Owns Whom?

As I noted in an earlier post, Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis made a post about me on Monday, November 6, at 2:29 p.m.

I reacted that evening with the post linked to above. But I forgot my initial reaction. And that reaction was to phone Jonnie Hargis's supervisor and apprise her that, once again, a UCLA employee was engaged in illegal activity at work.

The posts during the work day stopped.

So who owns whom, Jonnie?

And I guess the real question is, "Do you feel lucky?"



Well, do you, punk?

Running out of Tylenol at the Cesspit

Oh, the joys of CODOH forum.

Apparently disturbed by various damningly antisemitic and callous entries in the Goebbels diaries, one intrepid denier has noticed that wartime publications have a different tone to them - yes, that's right, one is a diary and the other is for public consumption. Therefore, the diary must be a forgery. Little does the denier know that no less a personage than (arf arf) David Irving endorsed the authenticity of the diaries, and simply glossed over or twisted the 'inconvenient' bits.

When they declare something faked, you know their brains are hurting.

A response to «SirMosley», a «White Nationalist»

As narrated on a thread of the RODOH forum pointed out here, I have been posting on the «Holocaust Thread» of the «Stormfront White Nationalist Community», for the reasons and with the results described in more detail in my RODOH posts # 7345, # 7370, # 7392, # 7412 and # 7416. Basically the record is that my posting gave the White Nationalists too much trouble, whereupon the moderator decided to add another restriction to my being outnumbered and my posts subject to moderator approval, by imposing a limitation to five posts per day on me. Unwilling to accept this cowardly dictate, I cancelled my posting on that thread after the second enforcement of said dictate and informed the WN’s accordingly. I also invited them to discuss with me on the RODOH forum, but this invitation was rejected, mostly under pretext of the beaten “you are not worth discussing with” – excuse. After I had already announced my departure, the moderator, as punishment for my having clearly told one of the fellows what I thought of him, quite unnecessarily tightened the restriction to just 4 posts per day. In RODOH post # 7416, I told the gentleman what he could do with every one of those 4 posts.

One of the WN regulars, who posts under the handle «SirMosley», seems to particularly like me, or then he is obsessed with his inability to best me in debate, which I presume makes a dent in his «White Pride» self image. Not only does he continue rambling against me after I have left (to which I respond on the above-mentioned RODOH thread), he also dedicated me an article on his own blog, which can be read here and was kindly pointed out to me by our reader True Voice. This article, the contents of which have already been addressed in two posts of mine on the SF board that were not published on the «Holocaust Thread» due to the aforementioned restriction and are now transcribed in my RODOH posts # 7393 and # 7397, I will now comment on.

Read more!



SirMosley (hereinafter "SM")

A Response to "Cortie", an Exterminationist
by SirMosley

"Cortie" is a diminutive of the handle I used on the SF thread, Cortagravatas. I don’t remember having kept pigs together with any of these people to warrant such familiarity, but OK. "Exterminationist" is one the designations that the adepts of the "Revisionist" religion invent for their opponents. Others include "Holohoaxer", "Holocaust Enforcer" and similar crap.

SM

Exterminationists like to explain away the absence of any genocidal activity in the aerial photography of Auschwitz

Oops, first mistake already. As we will see later, there are only two air photographs of Auschwitz-Birkenau corresponding to a set of days for which major extermination activity is documented. And as we will also see, both of these photographs show signs of that activity.

SM

on the grounds that there would be no visible traces of such activity most of the time anyways, and that it would be an incredible coincidence for the planes to have flown over at the moment killings were occuring.

I wouldn’t speak of an "incredible coincidence", but I maintain that the overflight of a reconnaissance plane need not have coincided with a period in which there was visible killing and/or body disposal activity on the ground at Auschwitz-Birkenau. This, in turn, is perfectly sufficient to counter the claim that air photography calls in question the accuracy of the overwhelming documentary, eyewitness and also physical evidence to the killing of hundreds of thousands of Jews at Auschwitz-Birkenau in the late spring and summer of 1944.

SM

An example is the following:

Quote:
Deniers claim that between April and October 1944 there is not one aerial photograph that shows extermiantion activity. First of all, we do have photographs of people in long lines being marched towards Crematorium V, where the gassing would have taken place. But, as for direct evidence, what could we realistically expect to see? The undressing, gassing, and cremation were all done inside the crematoria buildings. It was highly unlikely that an Allied plane would have flown over at the same time as smoke was coming out of chimneys or from an open-pit burning. Indeed, it would be an extraordinary coincidence if we had such a photograph. - Shermer and Grobman. Denying History. p. 150

As I said before, I don’t agree with Shermer and Grobman in what concerns the "extraordinary coincidence", nor is that necessary.

SM

A second example is taken from Wiernik, the lunatic who speaks of Jewish girls flying over ten foot barbed-wire fences:

This remark refers to the following episode of Chapter 8 of an English translation of Wiernik’s A Year in Treblinka available online:

When they had eaten and drunk their fill, the Ukrainians looked around for other amusements. They frequently selected the best looking Jewish girls from the transports of nude women passing their quarters, dragged them into their barracks, raped them and then delivered them to the gas chambers. After being outraged by their executioners, the girls died in the gas chambers with all the rest. It was a martyr's death.

On one occasion a girl fell out of line. Nude as she was, she leaped over a barbed wire fence three meters high, and tried to escape in our direction. The Ukrainians noticed this and started to pursue her. One of them almost reached her but he was too close to her to shoot, and she wrenched the rifle from his hands. It wasn't easy to open fire since there were guards all around and there was the danger that one of the guards might be hit. But as the girl held the gun, it went off and killed one of the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians were furious. In her fury, the girl struggled with his comrades. She managed to fire another shot, which hit another Ukrainian, whose arm subsequently had to be amputated. At last they seized her. She paid dearly for her courage. She was beaten, bruised, spat upon, kicked and finally killed. She was our nameless heroine.

Note the intellectual dishonesty of SirMosley, who makes a single episode into several by speaking of «Jewish girls flying over ten foot barbed-wire fences».

The episode of the girl "leaping" over a barbed wire fence is not necessarily as preposterous as it appears at first sight, for the following reasons:

• The "girl", as becomes apparent from the context, was actually a young woman.

• The statement that this young woman "leaped" over the fence, in the English text, may be a mistranslation from the Polish original of Wiernik’s account, which may have referred to her having quickly climbed over the fence.

• The fence was not as aggressive as an ordinary barbed-wire fence because, being obviously one of the fences of the Treblinka "tube" through which the victims were taken to the gas chambers, it was clad with saplings so as to prevent its being viewed through. It may have looked like this reproduction of a similar fence in the Sobibor death camp in the movie Escape from Sobibor.

• The fence was not as high as the witness erroneously, or hyperbolically, stated it to be. On page 42 of Yitzhak Arad’s Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. The Operation Reinhard Death Camps, we read the following (bolding emphases are mine):

Transport Square in the Lower Camp was connected to the extermination area by the "tube", or, as the Germans in Treblinka called it derisively, "the road to heaven" (Himmelstrasse). The tube was nearly 100 meters long and 4.5 to 5 meters wide. It began near the women’s undressing barrack, continued east and then south to the extermination area. It was fenced on both sides with barbed wire 2 meters high and intertwined with tree branches so that it was impossible to see in or out. The "tube" crossed a grove of trees, which continued eastward up the camp fence. At the entrance to the "tube", near the women’s undressing hut, a sign said: "To the Showers" (Zur Badeanstalt)

But let’s assume that this part is absolute nonsense. Let’s assume that there is other nonsense in Wiernik’s account as well. So what? There’s also much in Wiernik’s account that is clearly not nonsense, for it is not only plausible but also confirmed by evidence independent of Wiernik. I provided examples of such convergence in my SF post # 13119 and in my article Historiography as seen by an ignorant charlatan …. That’s what counts for history, and why I think dismissing Wiernik altogether on account of one or the other nonsense in A Year in Treblinka is throwing out the baby with the bath water.

SirMosley quotes the following passage from Chapter 9 of A Year in Treblinka:

Work was begun to cremate the dead. It turned out that bodies of women burned more easily than those of men. Accordingly, the bodies of women were used for kindling the fires. Since cremation was hard work, rivalry set in between the labor details as to which of them would be able to cremate the largest number of bodies. Bulletin boards were rigged up and daily scores were recorded. Nevertheless, the results were very poor. The corpses were soaked in gasoline. This entailed considerable expense and the results were inadequate; the male corpses simply would not burn. Whenever an airplane was sighted overhead, all work was stopped, the corpses were covered with foliage as camouflage against aerial observation.

and comments as follows:

SM

Such nonsense is offensive. Covering a cremation pyre heaped with thousands of corpses, using foliage, really.

Careful, SirMosley: where is Wiernik talking about pyres heaped with thousands of corpses here? He is referring to the first experiments that the SS made in burning the bodies; these need not have been on a very large scale and probably were not, as the SS might have wanted to ascertain if the method worked before they wasted many gallons of gasoline on pyres that would not burn satisfactorily because they were missing an essential factor, the draft (which the grids later provided). And he’s also not saying that the cover-up operation was effective, only that the SS scrambled to cover up the still unincinerated heaps – if they were already burning they would have had to put out the fire before. Once they had worked out the right method and were able to burn thousands of bodies a day, one thing they obviously had to do as well was say «Fuck aerial observation, nothing to do about it» (I don’t think there was much if any enemy aerial observation in Poland in early 1943 anyway; the planes must have been Luftwaffe planes, and the concern was probably about Luftwaffe officers asking what was going on rather than about the enemy spotting anything.).

SM

The following was a response to the exterminationist "Cortagravatas", aka Roberto, a frequent Stormfront and RODOH poster.

Frequent RODOH poster is correct. As to Stormfront, I wrote well over 100 posts there, but my stay with those beautiful people lasted only from 22.10.2006 to the early morning (GMT) of 06.11.2006, thanks to the moderator’s above-mentioned policies.

SM

This is exactly what he [Cortie] thinks was happening at Auschwitz.

That is, to put it plainly, a lie. I never claimed that the Birkenau incineration pits were covered up to hide them from air reconnaissance, as SM well knows. Like other "Revisionists" I have observed over the years, SM obviously prefers to argue against claims he would like his opponent to have made rather than those his opponent actually did make.

SM

Let's think about those pits for a second.

Note that the smoke in the May 31st, 1944 picture only corresponds to an area of about 50 square meters on the ground, meaning that they could be from 50 bodies at most.

SM’s claim is duly noted, evidence and calculations supporting that claim would be appreciated.

SM

If 50 were being done at a time, then for the 5,000 plus a day being burned, there would have to have been 100 different cremations. To cremate a human being requires a temperature of 1600 degrees farenheit for at least 2 hours, though most crematoria will tell you it takes five hours for them to cremate a body with all of their modern cremation techniques.

Two or five hours? Where did SM get that from? According to a participant from a British cremation conference in 1975, quoted by "Revisionist" guru Carlo Mattogno and referred to in John Zimmerman’s article Body Disposal at Auschwitz, the cremation of one body in a coffin takes one hour:

Mattogno cited a participant from a British cremation conference in 1975 who stated that the "thermal barrier" for a cremation was 60 minutes. [106] He ignored the comments of another conference particpant who suggested that most of the burning occurred in the first 30 minutes:

After about half an hour, whether the furnace has gotten up to a temperature of 1100°C or whether it is 900°C, there is a rapid fall away, and I think the investigations should be concerned with the last twenty minutes or so of the cremation cycle. At that time you have in the cremator a very small quantity of body material...roughly the size of a rugby football, about twenty minutes from the end of the cremation, and this is the thing which is most difficult to remove. [107]

SM

So, even saying just two hours per each cremation in these pits, that means to dispose of 5,000 bodies with 50 bodies at a time for two hours each, would take 200 hours, or 8 1/3 days of 24 hour operation.

What makes SM think that all pits were of the size he surmises, or that the smoke seen on the photograph of 31 May 1944 is even from the whole of one incineration pit? It might as well be that what we are seeing is a pit much bigger than corresponds to the size of the smoke plume, which has only started burning at one of its ends so far.

SM

We know that most of the cremation would be going on in these pits owing to the non-functioning of most of the other crematoriums.

What is "most of the other crematoriums" supposed to mean, and where’s the evidence? We know that Krematorium IV went out of order soon after it was commissioned, and Krema V was also out of order or didn’t work properly at the time of the operations in question, which was one of the reasons why incineration pits were used. But what about the two big crematoria, Nr. II and Nr. III? What evidence is there that they were not functioning at the time?

SM

Of course, the whole concept of burning these bodies in pits is stupid. It adds nothing to the process.

Burning bodies in pits is stupid? Not necessarily, as the walls of the pit would prevent heat loss. The only problem would be the draft, which would require careful configuration of the pit and constant tending of the fire. In his otherwise unremarkable article about Combustion Experiments with Flesh and Animal Fat, Carlo Mattogno quotes an expert in carcass incineration, the German engineer Wilhelm Heepke:

"This type represents the most widespread and the most modern method of individual burning and, if properly done, yields remarkable results. The carcasses are burnt in or above pits, the purpose of which is to concentrate the heat upon the object as much as possible, i.e., to improve the economy of the operation, and to allow an autopsy of the carcass to be made without having to worry about spreading the infection by squirting blood or by body parts set aside. Regarding the layout of the pits, essentially the same considerations apply as for burials, except that the pits have to be made deeper by 0.5 - 1.0 meters, to a total of 1.5 - 2.0 meters, in order to allow for the ash generated. The choice of a suitable place depends primarily upon the prevailing wind.

The simplest procedure is to dig a pit 2.5 m long and 1.5 m wide and deep in the vicinity of the carcass and to fill it almost completely with firewood logs about 1 m long. In order to achieve a good draft, the wood must be stacked lengthwise and crosswise in alternate layers; it must first be soaked in petroleum to ensure good and rapid burning. The easiest way to do this is by means of a narrow pail or bucket filled with petroleum, with both ends of each log being dipped into the liquid. It is also recommended to line the sidewalls of the pit with such logs placed vertically and close together.[…]"

If I understand Heepke correctly, he is not saying that burning carcasses in or above pits is particularly efficient or particularly "stupid". He’s just saying that it is a widely applied method.

SM

Now, Cortie says that this whole thing was so quick that it only took a short amount of time such that a plane would not notice it.

Oh, did Cortie say that? Cortie doesn’t remember, even though he usually has a good memory.

SM

Let's say it took two hours in total to dispose of the average of 5,000 bodies killed a day. The average volume of a human body is .07 m3, so 5,000 bodies pressed together and allowing for skinny bodies and fat bodies would be 350 cubic meters. Let's say, as Bendel does, that there's 3 pits of 72 m2. That's 216 m2.

Note that Bendel, whose pertinent statements are quoted here and who wasn't necessarily good at estimates of this kind, was just referring to the pits behind Krematorium V (which he called Krematorium 4):

The twin Krematorien 3 and 4 (IV and V), more commonly known as the "forest Krema" (they were located in a pleasant clearing) were of more modest dimensions, and their eight furnaces could handle one thousand bodies a day.(13) At the time I entered the Sonderkommando, the throughput of these furnaces had been deemed insufficient (14) and they were replaced by three cremation pits, each 12 meters long, 6 wide and 1.5 deep.

There were further incineration pits near "Bunker V", one of the farmhouses used for gassing in 1942 that had been reactivated for the same purpose at the time of the deportation of the Hungarian Jews between May and July 1944. Henryk Tauber is one of the witnesses mentioning these pits:

At the same time, the old Bunker 2, with its incineration pits, was also made ready for re-use. I never worked there.

There is at least one element of evidence suggesting that the incineration facilities by "Bunker V" were at least as large as if not larger than those behind Krema V. The notes written by Rudolf Höss in the sequence of his interrogations by Polish examining judge Jan Sehn, which are transcribed here, contain the following statement (my translation):

The burning capacity near V was practically unlimited as long as burning could be carried out day and night.

At any rate, it is manifestly false to assume that all bodies incinerated in the open were incinerated in the pits behind Krema V, described by Bendel among other witnesses.

SM

They'd have to be nearly a meter and a half deep just to fit the bodies, and obviously they would not be absolutely compressed together, or there'd be no draught; so for allowing whatever grilling/grating arrangements that you want, it would probably have to be at least five meters deep.

SM’s claim that the pits would need to be at least five meters deep is taken note of, but it is worthless without evidence and calculations underlying this figure, which SM did not provide.

SM

Do you think burying something five meters deep in marshy ground is going to burn well? So much so that it's all done in two hours? Most of the bodies would not even be hot.

Here comes the old "marshy ground" herring. Cremation specialist Heepke, quoted by Mattogno, mentioned a procedure that was worked out to match the contingency of marshy ground:

"Now many cases of carcass disposal occur in swampy areas such as meadows, moors, or river valleys. In these areas the high water table makes it impossible to go down to 1.5 m, and thus one would have to abandon the idea of using an efficient procedure, such as case B in Table I. In their effort to allow such a method to be used also in swampy terrain, Drs. Profé and Lothes, in their further experiments carried out in 1903, used [iron] beams laid across a pit only 0.75 meters deep to support the carcass. A collapsible windscreen, about 1 m high and made from iron plate, was then placed all around the pit. The screen thus took over the function of the missing depth of 0.75 meters; any heat losses can be countered effectively enough by surrounding [the screen] with a layer of earth. These trials, listed in section C, lines VII, VIII, and IX in Table II [see document 3] led to very satisfactory results, nearly equal to those of method B. For comparison, Table II also lists, in section D, lines X and XI, two trials where the carcass was placed directly on the fuel in pits 0.50 - 0.75 meters deep and burnt without any grid or windscreen.

From the above data one may conclude that it is possible, in the open, to burn carcasses efficiently, economically, and in a relatively short span of time, provided that methods B or C are used. These methods, according to Tables I and II, yield the following for 1 kg of carcass:

a fuel requirement of 0.5 kg of wood having a vaporization power of 4.5 kg and a heating power of 775 kcal [Translator's note: the author has apparently corrected fundamental scientific data for various types of losses].

a duration of the process of 45 seconds

a cost of 1.33 pfennigs"

As to the "marshy ground" itself: there was a drainage system at Birkenau for drying up the marsh, and in another article Mattogno mentions a «catastrophic» fall in the ground water table around Auschwitz in early 1944:

Furthermore, a "catastrophic" fall in the ground water table in the area around Auschwitz had already been noted in February 1944. This is evident from a letter from the head of the Central Building Administration Jothann "to the Regierungspräsidenten - Division IIIQ - Kattowtiz" dated 10 February 1944, which begins as follows:[9]
"As a result of the catastrophic fall in the ground water level in the area around Auschwitz, the wells sunk to supply the concentration camp and related operations are no longer sufficient." (See Fig.1)

The water level might again rise a little in the spring, but not necessarily enough to compensate for the «catastrophic» fall mentioned. Then, in the summer, it would again drop considerably, maybe to the «catastrophic» level mentioned.

So no, the incinerations were not necessarily done in marshland.

SM

Let's say they figured that out and so made these pits particularly shallow, a half meter deep maximum. But that would require making the pits much longer or wider to fit 5,000 bodies, since a half meter x 216 m2 would only be 108m3 of volume, whereas we'd need 350m3 to fit the bodies packed together. Assuming five meters of depth space to fit the bodies and all the grills and all the relevant spacing in a 216m2 trench, the surface area would have to increase by 10 fold to bring the depth down from 5 meters to .5 meters and and to still be able to fit the 5,000 bodies with the grill, so that's 2,160m2 of pits.

Assuming SM can prove his 5 meters depth postulation, that is.

SM

Do I see a 2km area of pits on that picture?

Well, there would be several pits, some of which would be in the area of «Bunker 5», which is not visible on the picture, while others would be near Krema V. All of them together would, assuming SM's claim about the depth is correct, need to have an area of 2,160 square meters (to put this into perspective, that’s about 30 % of the area of an average soccer field).

SM

No.

How can SM say that so categorically? How can he tell whether or not how many pits of what sizes are visible on this air photograph?

SM

So apparently they were covered up. By huge tarpes? A 2km2 square tarp would be noticeable.

Sure about that? It wouldn’t be one tarp with an area of 2,160m2, by the way. It would be several tarps on several pits in two wooded areas, that of Krema V and that of «Bunker V», of which only the first is visible on the photo. The other is somewhere at the end of the arrow pointing from the square labeled «Execution Area» on the photo as shown here, but you don’t see it. There’s a close up here, which I would like SM to look at and tell us how he established that there are no pits and no tarps in the area where the smoke comes from. I submit you can’t tell from that photo whether or not there are pits there.

SM

Foilage? 2km2 worth of leaves?

As much as you would need to cover 30 % of a soccer field, but I don’t think there was any cover-up.

SM

Preposterous, as it would not cover up hardly anything at all unless you had another few thousand pounds of it on hand. In any case, 2km worth of piled up leaves would be about as noticeable as possible.

In a wooded area? I don’t think so.

SM

And why would there be such pits? Burning massive amounts of bodies in an open pit is the singularly most stupid way of desposing with corpses.

Nonsense, see above.

SM

If the pits were not this size, then the cremation would have been very much a day-long affair.

Assuming SM can substantiate his five meters depth claim and give us a calculation of how long incineration would last under his assumptions. Just saying so doesn’t make it so.

SM

If the planes could capture people marching and people registering, they could certainly capture this.

Sure, assuming it was an all-day affair, which SM hasn’t yet demonstrated.

SM

If they were being burned about 50 at a time, as the May 31st photo indicates

No, it doesn’t, see above.

SM

if it is taken to be smoke from cremated bodies (an unjustified assumption, of course),

Why, what else would it be?

SM

then it would take over 8 days to clean up one day's worth of gassing.

As the assumption that the plume of smoke on the 31 May photo shows all they had pit-wise is without foundation, so is the conclusion.

SM

So, that leaves the pyres. Thousands of bodies as well as the wood, 650 pounds of wood for 5,000 people = 3,250,000 lbs of wood. Let's say that, due to German engineering genius and the working of at least some of the crematoriums, only 1/3rd of that amount was needed. An average 2x4x8 weighs about 7 pounds. That's 464,285 2x4x8s worth of wood, for a total volume of 29,714,285.714 cubic feet of wood, or 5627 cubic miles. For a warehouse 100 feet wide and a 30 feet tall, that's almost 2 miles long to contain all that wood. And that is for one days work.

My calculations are the following: assuming that these 5,000 bodies weighed 45 kg on average, which I consider reasonable given that they were mainly of women and children, we have 225,000 kg of body mass that required burning every day. Assuming 2 kg of wood per kg of body weight (which I consider the upper range for mass incinerations, based on the data mentioned in section 4.2 of my article Carlo Mattogno on Belzec Archaeological Research), that would be 450,000 kg or 450 tons of wood per day – 10 five-ton trucks, nine trips. Let’s assume they brought in dried birch wood for the job, which according to this site weighs 2840 – 3650 pounds or 1,288 to 1,656 kg per cord. We take the lower value, to that we need more cords, which favors SM’s argument. 450,000 kg of wood is thus 349 cords. 1 cord is ca. 3.6 cubic meters, 349 cords is 1,265 cubic meters.The small appartment where I live has about 100 square meters and is about 3 meters high, that’s 300 cubic meters. Little more than 4 times this would be sufficient to store the wood required, according to my calculations.

Now I’ll do it with SM’s assumptions: about 1,100,000 pounds of wood is about half a million kg or 500 tons of wood, corresponding to 388 cords of wood or 1,406 cubic meters of dry birchwood. SM’s warehouse would be ca. 30.5 meters (100 feet) wide, 9.1 meters (30 feet) tall and 3,218.7 meters (2 miles) long. The volume of that warehouse would be 893,350 cubic meters. My 1,406 cubic meters would fit in there more than 635 times. I think there’s something wrong with SM’s calculation. According to mine, his warehouse needs to be no more than about 5 meters (ca. 16.4 feet) long.

SM

So, for a week, you'd need several two mile long warehouses. And where are they? That's a million pounds of wood.

No, for a week you’d need just about 10,000 cubic meters. That’s about 7 warehouses 31 meters long, 5 meters wide and 9 meters tall, or 9 meters wide and 5 meters tall. But what makes SM think they’d stockpile for a week and not just a day or two?

SM

A million lbs of wood was just moved back and forth quite casually, and was placed in storage so nobody would see it, in buildings 2 miles long, that were also hidden.

Nonsense, see my above calculations.

SM

No Cortie, the trenches pictured there could not possibly accomodate enough bodies to burn so quickly that the whole operation could be done and cleaned up such that a plane never once saw what was going on. The pits and the crematorium capacities are simply not big enough.

That’s what SM hasn’t yet even come close to demonstrating. I’m especially interested in how he established that no trenches of the size required according to his calculations, for which he also still owes the backup, can be seen on this photograph or this closeup thereof. My take is that one cannot tell from that picture what pits are there or not let alone how big or small they are. And keep in mind that the picture shows only one of the two pit areas.

SM

Therefore, it would take multiple "runs", with an absolute minimum of two hours just to burn the bodies, and another hour to set everything up properly and get it going. Two runs would not be sufficient; with 180m3, it would take at least 3 runs to dispose of 350m3 of bodies with the appropriate grills set up (since you could not pack 180m3 of bodies in with no space each time, or nothing would burn; it would be at least half that). That's a minimum six hours out of a twelve hour day. We also have to include the gassings and all that in this time. Now we're getting into something that, assuming an impossible speed of cremation (two hours each), would turn into an 8-9 hour operation, out of a 12 hour day (this being May-June).

A 12 hour day in May-June in Poland? I think 15 or 16 hours of daylight is more appropriate at that time of the year, and there’s no reason why they shouldn’t have taken advantage of all of it. There’s also no reason why they shouldn’t have taken advantage of the nighttime to do at least a part of the work of bringing up the wood to the incineration sites and building the pyres.

SM

Therefore, it does turn into an all day operation, meaning that a plane flying over at any part during the day would catch at least some part of the operation, especially when there are photos from a number of days.

Well, even according to SM’s calculation there are 3 daytime hours in which a plane would catch nothing at all (according to mine that would be 6 or 7 hours). As to there being «photos from a number of days»: there are photos photos made by Allied planes on May 31, June 26, July 26, August 23, August 25 and September 13, and a photo made by Luftwaffe on July 8.

June 25 and June 26 there were no gassings, so forget the June 26 photo.

There were also no gassings on 26 July, and there was only on small gassing on 25 July, so forget the 26 July photo, too.

August 22: at least 759 Jews from Mauthausen were killed in the gas chambers, according to Danuta Czech’s Calendarium, see the Veritas Team 3rd Response of the “Scholars’ Debate” on the RODOH forum, (Steve Mock’s post # 891). August 23: no gassings mentioned. The photo of 23 August 1944 shows a large plume of smoke, which probably comes from the burning of the bodies of the Jews gassed on August 22.

Then we have 25 August 1944. On this day, as explained in more detail in the Veritas Team 3rd Response, there may have been a gassing of 1,500 registered prisoners at the camp, but this is not certain. Even if this gassing took place, the cremation could have taken place during the night, and even if this comparatively smaller operation (by the Birkenau standards of 1944) took place during the daytime, a coincidence between a reconnaissance plane’s flying over the camp and smoke coming out of the chimney of one of the two large crematoria (it would not have been necessary to use the incineration pits) would still be more improbable than probable, because of two "technical" scenarios explained in the Veritas Team 3rd Response and also because the cremation of 1,500 corpses in 30 furnaces à 4 bodies per hour would not necessarily take up all of the daytime hours on a day with early sunrise and late sunset. Add to this the fact that, according to photo analyst Lucas, only a part of the photograph is "good quality photography", and the chances of not seeing eventual incriminating features like smoke on the photograph are even higher.

As to the last photograph, taken September 13, these are the data from Danuta Czech’s Calendarium, mentioned in the Veritas Team 3rd Response:

September 12: 300 Jewish children from Kaunas are gassed.
September 13: On 13 September 1944 one transport has joined Birkenau with a total of 929 men and boys registered and, more importantly, as Danuta Czech informs us, 900 women and girls from the former Theriesenstadt Family Camp were put into Birkenau sector B-Iid, i.e., not gassed.

Most probably the bodies of 300 Jewish children were quickly burned on September 12, so no signs of this gassing would show on the September 13 photograph. On September 13, there were no gassings.

This leaves us with just two photographs, those of 31 May and 8 July, that correspond to a set of days in which there was gassing on a large scale.

SM

Of course, it would take much longer than two hours for each cremation in reality, and would probably take several days (just burning one in a normal, modern crematorium normally takes five hours, and that is with specialized equipment) of continuous operation for the whole thing.

The "modern crematorium" nonsense was already discussed above.

SM

If it was somehow super quick (two hours or less, assuming appropriate use of fat people and other apparently self-combusting bodies), taking only one run, then you'd need to show much bigger pits then these narrow trenches to fit all the overflow from the crematoriums in them in one go.

Readers may wonder where SM got "these narrow trenches" from. The answer is in the report of an air photo analyst by the name of Carroll Lucas, who located the following on the 31 May 1944 photograph:

Situated within the northwestern perimeter of the Birkenau complex, across the road from a line of barracks and adjacent to, but south of, the two buildings designated as Crematoria IV &V, are series of narrow trenches excavated in echelon within a large area of bare soil. Twelve of the trenches (having a total length of approximately 800 feet) are open, whereas another 9 trenches (totaling approximately 650 feet) appear to have been filled in. The open trenches appear to be shallow but precisely oriented, with little scattered soil. They appear to have been dug by hand, with the excavated soil stored between the trenches. These have all the appearances of hand dug, mass grave sites used to dispense the residue from the adjacent crematoria.

However, the location of these trenches is not compatible with eyewitness testimony regarding the location of the pits behind Krema V. So whatever these trenches are – if they are actually trenches – they are unlikely to have anything to do with the incineration pits. In the Veritas Team 3rd Response, this issue was addressed as follows:

Thus the air photograph can be considered further independent corroboration of Tauber’s testimony regarding the location of the pits and of Pressac’s identification of this location. On the other hand, this means that the “series of narrow trenches excavated in echelon within a large area of bare soil”, identified by air photo analyst Carroll L. Lucas “adjacent to, but to the south of, the two buildings designated as Crematoria IV & V” (Zimmerman, Holocaust Denial, page 291) are not the “mass grave sites” that Lucas assumed them to be or, at any rate, none of the incineration pits mentioned by Tauber.

SM

And even then, with two hours out of a twelve hour day, that's a 6 - 1 shot at catching them right in the act at every photo, and of course we have more than six photos.

No, we have only two photographs that correspond to a set of days in which there was gassing on a large scale. Both of them show smoke. None of them shows smoke corresponding to full-scale operation of the incineration pits (though I think the July 8 photo, see here a closeup, shows a larger plume of smoke than the one of 31 May) but that only means the camp was photographed at a time when the incineration pits were not operating full scale, either at the start or towards the end of the incineration process.

SM

It would be extremely *unlikely*, even at the most absurd estimate of burning, for the planes to not catch one sight of it.

Yeah, a 6:1 shot would be reduced to a 3:1 shot, according to SM’s probability calculations, which are not exactly convincing, in my opinion. For unless it can be demonstrated that the planes flew over at very different times on each day while the gassing and body disposal process took up exactly the same hours of every day on which major extermination operations took place, the number of overflight days wouldn’t necessarily increase the probability of taking a photograph at the "right" moment.

SM

Given a realistic number, assuming huge pits and the million pounds of wood, it would take four or five hours for the burning, and another few hours for the gassings and transport, thereby making the odds closer to 66-70% of flying over while some visible part of the operation was going on.

SM is assuming a total of 8 out of 12 hours on a day of major gassing and incineration during which either or both would be going on. With my 15-16 hours of daylight in summertime Poland, which I think are more reasonable than his 12 hours, the chance of the plane taking pictures on 31 May or 8 July 1944 would be closer to 50 %. But even if SM’s odds were the right ones, and even if the odds were higher in favor of photographing at the «right» moment, this wouldn’t necessarily mean it happened. And with all the eyewitness and documentary evidence pitted against him, with no plausible, evidence-backed alternative scenario as to what happened to 300,000 Hungarian Jews who got into Auschwitz-Birkenau but never got out, I’d say SM needs a 100 % certainty, and even then he would still have a lot of explaining to do.

SM

But every time the dice rolled in the favor of the Nazis. Odd how you're God takes care of his chosen people; perhaps this is why Wiesel had his crisis of faith.

A Jew-hater’s horseshit, not worth wasting a comment on.

SM

How bodies were burned in pits anyways is, of course, absurd.

Nonsense, as already explained.

SM

So with no pits,

SM hasn’t demonstrated this.

SM

no pyres (since there was not sufficient wood;

SM hasn’t demonstrated this either.

SM

you can find you're picture of stacked up wood from Pressac if you want, I certainly doubt it is a million pounds worth),

Certainly not, but there’s absolutely no reason why there should be a photo showing 350-400 cords of wood around.

SM

and barely functioning crematoria,

Another of SM’s unsubstantiated claims.

SM

how were the bodies disposed of again?

As described by many witnesses, the plausibility of whose testimonies SM hasn’t ruled out so far. A more interesting question would be: what, if not murder, happened to the overwhelming majority of the Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz-Birkenau, who were never again seen alive. Out of 508,861 Jews deported from Hungary to Auschwitz-Birkenau or to Austria, only about 126,000 returned to Hungary after the war or emigrated to other countries (data from Laszlo Varga, "Ungarn", in: Wolfgang Benz et al, Dimensionen des Völkermords. Those who returned had either been registered at Auschwitz-Birkenau as able to work, or sent from there to other camps, or sent directly to other camps without passing Auschwitz-Birkenau. What happened to the rest?