"Dr." Rudolf?

Another point of similarity between evolution deniers and Holocaust deniers, though maybe not as strong as the others, is the use of fraudulent credentials.

Though it seems that this phenomenon is not as widespread among the "revisionists", there are two notable examples. The first is rather straightforward - Fred Leuchter misrepresented himself as an engineer.

The second is more interesting. Germar Rudolf did not manage to receive a doctorate from Max Planck Institute for Solid State Research. Apparently, the reason for not letting him defend his dissertation was political, but whatever it was, the fact is that he has no PhD.

It is well-known that Rudolf used many pseudonyms during his "revisionist" career. While the use of pseudonyms does not matter generally, he used pseudonyms with doctorates, later explaining it thus:

In spring and summer 1992 I was called by several defence lawyers as an expert witness in several trials imposed on Revisionists in Germany (see footnote 103 of the brochure mentioned). In these trials -- as in all trials against Revisionists -- the judges refused to accept any evidence presented by the defence, including all expert witnesses. I had to learn that a chemist (me) was being refused because he was neither a toxicologist nor a historian, an engineer (Leuchter) being refused because he was neither a chemist nor a historian, a historian (Prof. Haverbeck) being refused because he was neither a chemist nor an engineer. My conclusions were that one obviously had to be at the same time an engineer, a chemist, a toxicologist, a historian and a perhaps even an barrister to be accepted as an expert witness at a German court. The legal process being so perverted in Germany, we decided to mock it by inventing a person with all these features, but then we realized that this would be a bit unrealistic, so we split that person into many.

Hardly an excuse for such a fraudulent practice.

Anyway, if you google for "Dr Germar Rudolf" you will get quite lot a of hits. That this misrepresentation of Rudolf's credentials may be deliberate is clear from a recent Cesspit message (emphasis mine):

A institution I will not identify ( due to the fact anti revisionists read this board) is raising money and as part of the effort, they are selling bricks which people can have inscribed with a name or saying.

In honor of the great contributions to Revisionism that Germar Rudolf has provided to truth seekers everywhere, I have decide to buy and dedicate a brick to him.

Besides his name, I also have a few lines available where I can include a short saying.

Does anyone on the board have any ideas to pass along.

Also, would it be appropriate to use the word Dr. in the title.

I am also open to buying a brick for some other revisionist who has moved the cause along, living or dead.

This person obviously knows that Rudolf is not "Dr.", yet considers applying this title to him anyway.

Update: heh, they just can't stop digging.

"To Dr Germar Rudolf,
incarcerated for fighting against
the false dogmas of the new religion"

("called the 'holocau$t")

Update 2: and another one:

As for the Dr. title; it might not be legal to advertise him as a doctor for business, but I feel he very much deserves the title, so why not add the Dr. title. Plus, it might help remove suspicions.

How about:
Dr. Germar Rudolf – for your relentless search for the truth. Thank you!

Update 3: as is usual for the Cesspit, when a posting becomes too embarrassing, it disappears. The first quote is by "vincentferrer", the second - by "kk", the third - by "Sushicotto".

Dumbos try to tackle arguments, fail miserably.

CODOH gurus are being literally eviscerated at this blog. Pitiful Cesspit fauna cannot ignore this fact, but neither can it refute anything, so it has to do what it does best: lie or distort.

A notorious Cesspit clown "Carto's Cutlass Supreme" thinks he has me nailed down:

It's interesting because Romanov agrees that Pechersky's claims are not believable, and the way he tries to get around that is by saying the holocaust writers lied about what Pechersky said.

The problem is that Pechersky wrote his own book which had the problematic comments.

Hey, no big deal, it's just 10 men executed at a trial where Pechersky was lead prosecution witness. (1963 Kiev)

But of course, in the very posting which he cites, I never said that anybody lied or distorted Pechersky's text. That was a possibility offered by Mr. Blatt, based on his own bad experience with Miriam Novitch.

What is important in Mr. Blatt's reply is the point that Pechersky never claimed to have seen the process itself, indeed, that the Jewish Sobibor prisoners could have learned about the method only through hearsay. Only those people who operated the gas chambers could provide the reliable information about the methods used (and they did, after the war).

The second quote I provide - the quote from the book edited by Suhl - fully confirms Mr. Blatt's point about hearsay. Not only the method described is hearsay, it is second-hand hearsay, i.e. even Pechersky's source heard this from someone else. Witnesses' credibility is in no way impeached when they repeat hearsay, if they don't claim that this is what they have seen with their own eyes (and Pechersky did no such thing, of course), and especially if they explicitly identify hearsay as such (and this is what Pechersky did).

And Graf deceptively omitted the passages which identify Pechersky's information as second-hand hearsay.

This simple idea evidently flew right through CCS' empty head.

Finally, as a comic relief, you can read Jonnie "I am not Hannover" Hargis' hysterical argument-free "response" in the same thread. What can I say? Cesspit at its best!

Update: CCS continues to dig his grave even deeper.

Mazal has a whole library of holocaust books, but offers Romanov a book that he just discounted in the previous paragraph. The only way it could have been worse is if Mazal offered Romanov a Leon Uris book!

Romanov bolsters his position by quoting Mazal's email:

No Jew who was once inside the gas chamber in operation come out alive. The information about the gassing installation came from the accused Nazi testimonies in the court proceedings.

At the end of the day, CCS is even more clueless than he was in the beginning. It was Blatt who discounted the book, and it is Blatt whom CCS quotes - not Mazal. Reading skills of a kindergartner. Anyway, what is CCS' point in the first sentence? Is the imbecile unaware that it is the very same book that Graf quotes (just an English edition), and that's why it is this very book that had to be checked? CCS, why are you so dumb?

And then follows up with his own comment, "Makes sense, doesn't it."

Actually it doesn't make sense because Romanov is someone who has been posting daily for the holocaust cause for years, and who maybe is a second online persona of Andrew Mathis. Clearly he knows that most of the information about the gas chambers is from Jewish inmates.

This is obviously untrue in the case of Sobibor. What Sobibor Sonderkommandos survived?

So Romanov has never heard of Yankel Wiernik's Year in Treblinka? Or how about this book:

Filip Müller, Auschwitz Inferno: Testimony of a Sonderkommando, Routledge & Kegan Paul, London 1979.

So Romanov has never seen Shoah (1985) by Claude Lanzmann where Abraham Bomba talks about being inside the gas chamber on DVD disk 3 chapter 2?

Yes, Treblinka and Auschwitz to debunk a point about Sobibor. How clever! (A side note: in fact, the point is generally more or less true in case of all Aktion Reinhardt camps, even where Sonderkommandos survived. Because most of SKs were just dragging the bodies out of the gas chambers - which does not mean that they would have accurate information about the method itself, including all specifics. Many did get it right - that people were gassed with engine exhaust. But some of them (along even with several Nazis not directly involved in the procedure) (probably) incorrectly thought that the engine was diesel. Others thought that different methods (like sucking the air out of chamber or steaming) were used in the past. So, as I said, the point stands - as a rule, only the people most directly involved in the murder procedure would have non-hearsay, accurate information about the details).

Ah, these CODOH "gentlemen"... And NAFCASH.

Some CODOH puppet writes [copy here]:

I notice that the mentally retarded/ill cowards and liars at CODOH Watch have yet to make any comments on the NAFCASH site, much less accept any of the NAFCASH challenges. What does it say about an issue when the Jews give it the silent treatment?

By the way, if you haven't visited the - http://www.nafcash.com/ - site lately, The Treblinka CSI Challenge is up to $210,000.00 and the NAFCASH Forensic Challenge is up to $25,000.00.

I wonder what that idiot - loser Mathis is waiting for?

Just like evolution deniers, Holocaust deniers are fond of bogus challenges.

Let's see what this "NAFCASH" has to offer.

Read more!

A detailed FORENSIC EXAMINATION of the site of the wartime Treblinka camp, using sophisticated electronic ground radar, has found no evidence of mass graves there. For six days in October 1999, an Australian team headed by Richard Krege, a qualified electronics engineer, carried out an examination of the soil at the site of the former Treblinka II camp in Poland, where, Holocaust historians say, more than half a million Jews were put to death in gas chambers and then buried in mass graves.

According to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), for example, "a total of 870,000 people" were killed and buried at Treblinka between July 1942 and April 1943. Then, between April and July 1943, the hundreds of thousands of corpses were allegedly dug up and burned in batches of 2,000 or 2,500 on large grids made of railway ties. Krege's team used an $80,000 GROUND PENETRATION RADAR (GPR) device, which sends out vertical radar signals that are visible on a computer monitor. GPR detects any large-scale disturbances in the soil structure to a normal effective depth of four or five meters, and sometimes up to ten meters (GPR devices are routinely used around the world by geologists, archeologists and police). In its Treblinka investigation, Krege's team also carried out visual soil inspections, and used an auger to take numerous soil core samples. The team carefully examined the entire Treblinka II site, especially the alleged "mass graves" portion, and carried out control examinations of the surrounding area. They found no soil disturbance consistent with the burial of hundreds of thousands of bodies, or even evidence that the ground had ever been disturbed. In addition, Krege and his team found no evidence of individual graves, bone remains, human ashes, or wood ashes.

They found no evidence that the ground had ever been disturbed? Um, hellooo? Wouldn't that mean that there was no camp at all, the claim that even most rabid deniers prefer not to make, because the evidence for camp's existence is undisputed? (But cf. this). This is akin to a 9/11 conspiracy theorist "investigating" whether the planes could have brought down the WTC towers, and concluding that the towers themselves never existed!

That is, either Krege used bogus methods OR he incorrectly interpreted the results.

Of course, we know that there were graves (before they were mostly obliterated by the Nazis themselves), and they were so big as to cause stench 20 km away from Treblinka! The remains were also found just after the war:

There are also other traces. For example, in the north-eastern part, over a surface covering about 2 ha. (5 acres), there are large quantities of ashes mixed with sand, among which are numerous human bones, often with the remains of decomposing tissues.

As a result of an examination made by an expert it was found that ashes were the remains of burnt human bones. The examination of numerous human skulls found in the camp has shown that they bear no traces of external injuries. Within a radius of several hundred yards from the camp site an unpleasant smell of burnt ash and decay is noticeable, growing stronger as one approaches.

You can read more about Krege's idiocy here and here. Some nifty details there.

It will suffice to say that it's been 7 years, and Krege still has not published any report about his alleged findings.

Now, to the challenge itself:

Locate the alleged “huge mass graves” of Treblinka. You must, SCIENTIFICALLY – FORENSICALLY prove the EXACT number of graves, their EXACT location, their EXACT dimensions and their EXACT volumetric density. The number of remains must total AT LEAST -

870,000

Actually, recent research indicates a lower number of ca. 800,000, but that's beside the point (although the challenge is already unanswerable because of that). The problem here is that no one claims that these bodies are still there. They have been burned in 1943. In fact, if we were to find the bodies of 800,000 people in Treblinka today, that would mean that what we think we knew about Treblinka would be patently false, because, to repeat, the bodies have been destroyed.

And of course one cannot quantify from the remaining ashes, pieces of bones and other remains which are still buried in Treblinka soil any meaningful number of the victims, even if one were to suppose that no ashes/remains were taken elsewhere.

I.e., the challenge cannot be met in principle, not unlike Kent Hovind's evolution challenge. It is totally bogus.

The same applies to their second, smaller challenge too. Actually, even if the rules were not so idiotic, one wouldn't be able to perform the excavations anyway, because, whether one likes it or not, the site is considered sacred, for an obvious reason. The only reason for some sort of excavation to be permitted by authorities would be to delineate the area of the graves themselves, for the construction of a monument (Jewish religious law forbids disturbing human remains). This is what was done by Prof. Andrzej Kola, who has found numerous graves in Belzec extermination camp area, and numerous human remains (see his report Belzec. The Nazi Camp for Jews in the Light of Archaeological Sources. Excavations 1997-1999.). But since there already is a monument in Treblinka (probably built without regard for religious sensibilities), this option is unavailable.

Finally, but most importanty, nobody is going to dance to the denier pigs' tune and disturb the remains of Treblinka mass graves just to appease them and meet their "challenge". Maybe these mental midgets don't know what dignity is, but we do.

Update: "vali" again [copy here]:

You are right Haldan, point taken. But it's just so hard to resist when the people we are talking about are in fact cowards, liars, idiots, losers, etc. The fact remains, the members of NAFCASH have put their money where their mouths are, and CODOH Watch gives them the silent treatment. How else can you describe that without using the word coward?

Yes, we're dealing with cowards, liars, idiots and losers, as is evident from the above comment.

Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis advertises our blog

Here.

Interestingly, he doesn't address a single argument, and only engages in ad hominem attacks on Andrew Mathis.

I understand - it's hard for Jonnie to argue with informed opponents when he can't edit, censor and delete their postings. Too bad!

Update: to clarify: "CODOH Watch" is our "meta blog" in which short announcements of our messages are posted for "Google" reasons, so to say. The links lead here. So it is funny that Jonnie did not choose to advertise the main blog.

Update 2: Poor Tommy Moron, deluded as always. Kudos to Obersto for being less cowardly/obtuse than the others and posting the link to the main blog. ;-)

Update 3: Two more deniers have chimed in with ad hominems. But where's the discussion of specific arguments? Why the dodging? And here I sit thinking that "revisionism", that intellectual adventure of the previous century, is all about debate... NOT!

Update 4: Here's Andrew's response.

The Cesspit Stirs

Never let it be said that our friends at The Cesspit are quick off the mark. Having noticed the existence of this blog on April 10, it's taken Johnny Hargis (57) and the gang until, what is it today? May 18 to realise that we have a mirror-site, which we deliberately called CODOH Watch in order to direct some Google traffic our way. All it consists of is Andrew placing links to every post on here and poking fun at Hannover et al in short one-liners. So now sit back and enjoy the overreaction:

-----------------------------------
Hannover
Thu May 18, 2006 11:37 am
Tinfoil Hat Mathis and The Nutjobs bring you CODOH Watch
-----------------------------------
Beautiful. A great indicator of the strength of our points.
You gotta see this wacko site. They're in a state of panic about the thorough debunking we're doing of the so called 'holocau$t'. Think of it, in their desperation they resort to building a site dedicated to attacking CODOH. Are they obsessed or what? You gotta love it.
see:CODOH Watch
Take note that Tinfoil Hat Mathis and The Nutjobs have been utterly demolished here at this forum.
- Hannover

In typical Hannover style, he then posts again, having pulled off his trusty list of links to past threads hallowing famous debating 'victories':

-----------------------------------
Hannover
Thu May 18, 2006 11:48 am
-----------------------------------
The CODOH Revisionist Forum has given Tinfoil Hat Mathis plenty of rope to hang himself and his 'holocau$t' lies. Take note that he is the same nutjob who specializes in threatening Revisionists.
Also remember, Tinfoil Hat Mathis is the premiere spokesman for the so called 'Holocau$t' History Project, talk about desperate. Read these and see just what a fool Mathis is.
- Hannover

'Holo. Hist. Proj. rep. attempts to intimidate Bradley Smith'

'Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis humidity/gassing canard'

'holocaust' denial article by Andrew Mathis debunked here'

'Prof. Mc Nally dissects HHP's Andrew Mathis' bogus article'

'Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis on Zyklon scent removal'

'Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more'

'Believer org. spokesman, Andrew Mathis, demolished in debate'

'Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage control'

'Email from Andrew Mathis (The Holocaust History Project)'

'holocaust' History Project to unveil section on Treblinka'

This, by the way, is vintage Hargis: whereas deniers are allowed to reopen debates that have long been settled, everyone else is 'debunked' once and for all. The constant references to 'panic' and 'imminent shattering of the myth' are also vintage Hannover, betraying, as we've said before, a perhaps dim awareness of his own mortality (Johnny is 57) and the fact that though he rules supreme in the Führerbunker, aside from a handful of acolytes, no one takes him seriously. That's why we check in at his forum, so we can have a good laugh.

And then we have the comment of Friedrich Braun:

-----------------------------------
friedrich braun
Thu May 18, 2006 11:54 am
-----------------------------------
Andrew Mathis writes:
Wilhelm Stäglich Dies
CODOH hates it when I celebrate deaths of Holocaust deniers, but let me just say: This bastard should rot in hell.

Now, how psychologically twisted and morally depraved do you have to be to do a little dance while high-fiving each other and yelping with joy because someone died? Did Stäglich participate in some "war crimes"? NO. All he ever did is write books exposing the endless lies of the holocau$t industry...and that's enough to to earn him eternal enmity.
Mathis has always struck me as both a creep and an asshole.
What kind of a man hates with such blind passion?

And thank you for overreacting precisely in the way Andrew hoped for - poor ol' Herr Braun does not seem to realise he has been comprehensively wound up.

A short while later, another specimen of pond-life, Vali, chimes in wondering why CODOH Watch hasn't met the NAFCASH 'Treblinka Challenge':

-----------------------------------
vali
Thu May 18, 2006 12:51 pm
CODOH Watch and NAFCASH
-----------------------------------
I notice that the mentally retarded/ill cowards and liars at CODOH Watch have yet to make any comments on the NAFCASH site, much less accept any of the NAFCASH challenges. What does it say about an issue when the Jews give it the silent treatment?
By the way, if you haven't visited the - http://www.nafcash.com/ - site lately, The Treblinka CSI Challenge is up to $210,000.00 and the NAFCASH Forensic Challenge is up to $25,000.00.
I wonder what that idiot - loser Mathis is waiting for?

Such rage. Such coherence. Such a shame Vali is projecting so badly onto us that one might wonder whether he might not be a cousin of Celtic Patriot.

Denier-baiting: fun for all the family...

Update:
Friedrich Braun sneers:

Oops, I almost forgot. That would be Mathis "PhD" of course.
In the cognitively demanding field of... English lit. -- and from a second rate place. A trained, one-lobed monkey can get a grad. degree in English lit....it's not exactly particle physics.

We look forward to seeing Herr Braun's own qualifications. A Habilitation perhaps?
- Nick Terry, PhD in History, King's College London

What's with the IQ and stuff?

White supremacists are obsessed with IQ. Why, then, most of them are mumbling imbeciles, with apparent IQs of chimps?

Here's an excellent example from the Stormfront forum. Some "Celtic_Patriot" learns of the recent news about Germany updating the list of the German Jews killed in the Holocaust. His conclusion? Holocaust is a hoax, what else!

Being a Jew, you'd like only Jews to speak for the whole World, only problem is, China and Germany don't care about the Jews anymore, the 50 years of mourning is up and it's on with regular business, after all it was only, it turns out, 150,000 Jews, not 6,000,000. Oh well, time to shut down the Hoax museums, big deal.

When it is pointed out to him that the report speaks about the German Jews only, and thus even in principle cannot "disprove" the total accepted approximate figure of the Holocaust victims, this yahoo stubbornly goes on and on, digging himself even deeper into manure of his own making.


Celtic_Patriot, apparently an high-IQ specimen
Enjoy the thread!

PS: Later the freak says:

Whites are smarter than Jews.

Bwahahahaha!

Update: he's still at it. Please, tell me, where are such retards born? Surely near some nuclear plant?

The Eminently Fair CODOH Forum Moderator

In one of the more amusing moments over at the Jonnie Hargis-run CODOH Forum, a thread was begun by one of the members (all of whom are Holocaust deniers -- there is actually little or no debate going on over there), and it was deleted by the "moderator." Then it was reposted, with the "moderator" noting, "To avoid favoritism, I have left only the original post."

Of course, the original post was by Jonnie Hargis (Hannover). Personally, I'd think it was favoritism if I didn't know, thanks to CODOH founder Bradley Smith saying so, that Hargis is the moderator as well as a participant.

As our own Sergey Romanov noted earlier, despite claims of desire for "open debate." Smith's admission, which he quickly deleted from his own blog, can be found in Sergey's links.

As long as Smith continues to employ Hargis as his useful idiot moderator, only RODOH will remain as the open-debate Holocaust forum on the Internet.

Jews / vermin

While you're reading this illuminating CODOH thread, keep in mind that "revisionism" has nothing to do with antisemitism. Well, at least according to "revisionists" themselves.

Update: Also see this.

The first dirty foot in a rotten mouth

I said:

Let's see how the deniers react, though. Will they say that it makes up for "revisionists'" arrests?

Well, the first response is in.

A German neo-Nazi writes:

If he was arrested only because of his opinion or his scientific results - well then...

... this would be a hate crime against my nation and the German people. It is absolutely ok that hoaxters are arrested and sentenced because of hate speech.

Sicko doubts the Holocaust, hailed by the Cesspit slime.

Certain Bob Allen, a "cyber libertarian and advocate for the basic human rights of men", who thinks that rape does not hurt women ("... when a female refuses sex with a man, she's telling him that she has no respect for him as a man. She receives what she does to others.") also doubts the Holocaust.

Not surprisingly, his idiocy is re-published at the Cesspit. Birds of a feather...

Anyway, here's my very rude ;-) response to the schmuck. It hasn't been published by him yet (the comments there are moderated):

Sir, you're a gross ignoramus, nothing else. How about learning something about the topic (the basics, at least), before showing that you're a fool?

You write:

"Indeed there were gas chambers and crematoriums, but why build so many acres of barracks holding hundreds of thousands if the function of the place is just to exterminate them?"

But you're raising a strawman here. No, extermination was not the sole function of concentration camps. Moreover, most concentration camps didn't even have that function.

The Jews - and non-Jews - were used for labor. It were mainly the Jews who were not fit for labor who were immediately sent to the gas chambers.

Such a simple fact, and you could have learned it if you have just got off your lazy ass and read a book.

Here's my diagnosis: you are a moron.

I often respond quite rudely to the denier drivel, and sometimes maybe I go over the top. But in this case that's what was needed, wouldn't you agree? ;-)

Update: Some of his posts look like satire/black humor, Landover Baptist style. I'm not completely sure if this is a real person, all points still stand, though ;-)

Update 2: Bradley Smith chimes in:

You're experience of visceral doubt with regard to the Holocaust story, without substantial research into the matter, rings a bell for me. I had the same experience many years ago. Out of the blue.

CODOH is not antisemitic.

Even when one of their "finest" says things like:

It's all a matter of Jews playing 'good cop, bad cop.' Fake disagreements to make a record that Jews are not totally cohesive.

No Sirree! Not antisemitic at all.

Update: Also lookie here. No antisemitic agenda there, don't even think about it!