Monday, December 22, 2008
Hannover's Reading Skills
It is strange that a librarian cannot read a paragraph without garbling its contents. Jonnie Hargis perpetrates a total misreading of Dr Neander's post #78 in this thread then deletes all of Dr. Neander's clarifying posts. I summarize his misreading in my post #2862 here. Note especially the Moderator's hypocrisy in demanding sources from Dr Neander whilst allowing Hannover to make unsourced wild conjectures about Halbreich's supposed criminality.
Thursday, December 18, 2008
How to Become A Mass Graves Denier in 10 Easy Steps
No need to visit an archive or even go to school! You can practice these steps in the privacy of your own home or Fuehrerbunker.
Read more!
1. Always say the grave site is too small or too large, whilst ignoring the blatant contradiction between these two positions.
2. Call your opponent a "Jew bitch", "Jew lie" or "Judeo-supremacist", whilst insisting that there's no such thing as antisemitism.
3. Ignore the fact that Jewish religious laws have prohibitions against the disturbance of human remains. Demand full autopsies that would contravene these laws.
4. Pretend that partial excavations or test drillings were full site investigations and judge the results against that benchmark.
5. When referred to translations of Polish or Soviet postwar reports of mass grave excavations, bluntly dismiss them saying that those 'Communists' were liars who cannot be trusted. When shown evidence independent of those 'Communists' that corroborates their findings, ignore the argument or argue as per item 7.
6. Pretend that only those parts of an excavation that are published on-line were actually carried out. If it's not on-line, it doesn't exist! Forget that this would rule out nearly all historical studies of mass killings or criminal cases ever conducted.
7. Insist that German wartime documents and perpetrator eyewitnesses do not constitute real evidence, without explaining why.
8. Insist that if every victim cannot be identified by name, or if victim estimates change over time, this proves that the killings did not occur. Ignore this rule when discussing the firebombing of Dresden or crimes against ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe.
9. Keep demanding to be shown 'just one' sample of a bone fragment, tooth or other type of human remains. When asked about the relevance of your demand, ignore the question and repeat the demand. When shown photographs of human remains found at a Nazi mass killing site, yell that it has not been proven that these are actually a) human remains and b) Jewish human remains. Alternatively, argue that such remains could have been brought there from the local cemetery.
10. Apply the "falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus" fallacy to any source (e.g. eyewitness accounts given to Father Desbois), without reference to any established legal or historiographical rules that would justify such a negationist approach to the evidence.
Read more!
1. Always say the grave site is too small or too large, whilst ignoring the blatant contradiction between these two positions.
2. Call your opponent a "Jew bitch", "Jew lie" or "Judeo-supremacist", whilst insisting that there's no such thing as antisemitism.
3. Ignore the fact that Jewish religious laws have prohibitions against the disturbance of human remains. Demand full autopsies that would contravene these laws.
4. Pretend that partial excavations or test drillings were full site investigations and judge the results against that benchmark.
5. When referred to translations of Polish or Soviet postwar reports of mass grave excavations, bluntly dismiss them saying that those 'Communists' were liars who cannot be trusted. When shown evidence independent of those 'Communists' that corroborates their findings, ignore the argument or argue as per item 7.
6. Pretend that only those parts of an excavation that are published on-line were actually carried out. If it's not on-line, it doesn't exist! Forget that this would rule out nearly all historical studies of mass killings or criminal cases ever conducted.
7. Insist that German wartime documents and perpetrator eyewitnesses do not constitute real evidence, without explaining why.
8. Insist that if every victim cannot be identified by name, or if victim estimates change over time, this proves that the killings did not occur. Ignore this rule when discussing the firebombing of Dresden or crimes against ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe.
9. Keep demanding to be shown 'just one' sample of a bone fragment, tooth or other type of human remains. When asked about the relevance of your demand, ignore the question and repeat the demand. When shown photographs of human remains found at a Nazi mass killing site, yell that it has not been proven that these are actually a) human remains and b) Jewish human remains. Alternatively, argue that such remains could have been brought there from the local cemetery.
10. Apply the "falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus" fallacy to any source (e.g. eyewitness accounts given to Father Desbois), without reference to any established legal or historiographical rules that would justify such a negationist approach to the evidence.
Sunday, December 14, 2008
CODOH and Shawcross
It has been established beyond any reasonable doubt that statements attributed to Hartley Shawcross in which he supposedly claimed that "we are forced to realise that Hitler was right" are false. Furthermore, anyone who Googles the words "Shawcross Stourbridge" will find this full debunking in one of the first returned search results.
Read more!
It is therefore instructive that, when a user named Reviso began this thread on the topic, the moderator (Jonnie 'Hannover' Hargis) did not ask him for a source for the quote. His 'show me' rhetoric was notably absent from his reply. Instead, he gave this bogus reasoning:
1. Pro-Nazi evidence may still be genuine even if it cannot be produced!
2. Even if Shawcross did not make pro-Nazi statements, and we can't produce a quote by anyone else with his background saying them, we can still assume that "it follows that someone like Shawcross would eventually make such statements."
Hence we have proof that Hargis has no real interest in 'evidence' as such, and his 'show me' calls were always a sham.
Furthermore, a CODOH user called Lamprecht currently has the false quote as his signature, without any action being taken by the 'moderator'.
Read more!
It is therefore instructive that, when a user named Reviso began this thread on the topic, the moderator (Jonnie 'Hannover' Hargis) did not ask him for a source for the quote. His 'show me' rhetoric was notably absent from his reply. Instead, he gave this bogus reasoning:
My reason for "supposedly" is that it is quoted frequently but I have never seen the text of the speech in any traditional publication, that doesn't mean it does not exist. A local newpaper where the speech was given may have carried the text. I haven't spend much time on it as I do not find the contents particularly unique.So, in direct contradiction of his approach towards any Holocaust documentation, Hargis's approach to the bogus statements attributed to Shawcross is to state that:
Usually the meaning and implications of such quotes is what people want to debate. And as I have stated, finding support for it's content is easy. IOW, it follows that someone like Shawcross would eventually make such statements.
1. Pro-Nazi evidence may still be genuine even if it cannot be produced!
2. Even if Shawcross did not make pro-Nazi statements, and we can't produce a quote by anyone else with his background saying them, we can still assume that "it follows that someone like Shawcross would eventually make such statements."
Hence we have proof that Hargis has no real interest in 'evidence' as such, and his 'show me' calls were always a sham.
Furthermore, a CODOH user called Lamprecht currently has the false quote as his signature, without any action being taken by the 'moderator'.
Saturday, December 06, 2008
Jonathan’s last blog …
… led the cretin of "Revisionist" cretins, Greg Gerdes (who is probably identical with this illustrious "White" specimen, and who thought I had written that blog), to display his low intellect and lower character in bitching about me on this thread of the "CODOH Revisionist Forum" (where I, as the coward well knows, am not allowed to post).
I commented on Gerdes' primitive nonsense in my post # 1760 on the VNN thread Archeological Investigations of Treblinka.
Update, 10.12.2008
A few more "Revisionist" geniuses have opened their big mouths on the aforementioned CODOH thread, so I’ll comment their utterances hereafter.
Read more!
Post of Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:01 pm by “NeilfromBris” (a debutante hollow-head, of maybe just another hollow-head’s sock-puppet)
NfB
I thank NfB for mentioning that I don't post on CODOH anymore. I'm not allowed to, you know. Moderator Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis had to ban me because neither he nor any other enlightened "Revisionist" could handle my arguments.
NfB
That suggests NfB is just another laughing imbecile. And as he's so eager to talk to me and I'm not allowed to post on CODOH, I suggest he come over to the RODOH forum for some real open debate on the Holocaust (as opposed to the censorship-protected mutual backslapping among "Revisionist" true believers that one sees on CODOH). He can then tell me what’s supposed to have been so laughable about my arguments on those CODOH threads, and explain why, if my arguments were so laughable, Hargis considered it necessary to delete or retain some of my posts (as documented on the RODOH thread A message to Jonnie Hannover Hargis ...).
If he’s not just some other fellow’s sock-puppet, that is.
And if he is not a whimpering coward like Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis.
NfB
Actually I contribute to only two blogs, this one and the Brazilian blog O Holocausto (as can be seen on my profile). And the only "chat sites" I currently post on are RODOH and the VNN thread Archeological Investigations of Treblinka. But the compliment is appreciated.
NfB
That must be my article 5 million non-Jewish victims? (Part 2), at the end of which I wrote the following:
NfB doesn’t seem to be a very attentive reader. But I’m glad he visits this blog, for this means he will also read the present article and thus be informed about my invitation to open debate on RODOH.
A confused person is what NfB seems to be indeed, and also one not interested in historical fact and notoriously ignorant. Maybe he should start by informing himself about the population of the European countries mentioned in my above-quoted list during World War II. Next he may take a look at World War II casualties in those countries, wherein the non-combatants who perished through criminal violence by Nazi Germany and its allies are included.
Post of Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:54 pm by Jonni "Hannover" Hargis (who must have read my RODOH thread Hey Bankdraft, what kind of a slimy @sshole are you … and therefore be in need of venting his anger at having once more been shown for the cowardly liar he is)
Hargis
Actually people like me apply science, logic and rational thought processes without making a fuss about it, whereas bigmouthed charlatans like Hargis throw these terms around but know as much about what either implies as a pig does about Sunday – awareness of which is probably the reason, or one of the reasons, why Hargis never leaves his warm and cozy online Führerbunker and ventures into the real world of open debate.
Hargis
Yeah, sure. See the aforementioned thread on how (i.e. by censoring posts and eventually banning the poster) this "debunking" was done. Also of interest in this respect is the RODOH thread The Memory Hole Festival goes on ....
Hargis
First of all, it's not 13.9 million, as I prefer the lower range of estimates on the number of Jewish victims of Nazi mass murder. According to my calculations quoted above, it's at least 12.5 million, thereof 43 % Jews and 57 % non-Jews.
Second, it's amusing to see Hargis emulating the "not ONE" – rhetoric of his fellow coward, liar and obnoxious fish-wife Greg Gerdes.
And third, one only sees no mass graves if one sticks one's head in the sand, ostrich-style, like the characters on this caricature by Dr. Seuss :
If Hargis ever took his head out of the sand (or stopped lying), he would realize (or acknowledge) that one can find quite a few investigators’ or archaeologists’ descriptions of Nazi-made mass graves and photos of such mass graves and of dead bodies of Nazi murder victims even on the web these days. Regarding civilians and prisoners of war bumped off or made to die of starvation and disease in Nazi-occupied territory, see for instance Nick's article Mass Graves in the Polesie, Sergey’s article That's why it is denial, not revisionism. Part II: Deniers and the graves of Marijampole and my articles Neither the Soviets nor the Poles have found any mass graves with even only a few thousand bodies … , Carlo Mattogno on Belzec Archaeological Research, Polish investigations of the Treblinka killing site were a complete failure …, Archaelogical Research at Chelmno and Mass Graves at Sobibor, as well as my RODOH threads Busk, My Trip to Sobibor, Mass Graves and Dead Bodies and Pictures of German Occupation in the USSR. Regarding the siege of Leningrad, Hargis should pay a visit to, say, the Piskaryov Memorial Cemetery in St. Petersburg, Russia.
Hargis
So the "Jewish supremacists" of Hargis' fantasies are supposed to have invented non-Jewish victims of Nazi criminal violence in numbers that, even by the lowest of my counts, largely exceed even the highest estimates on the number of Jewish victims of the Nazi genocide, instead of trying to sweep non-Jewish victims of Nazi criminal violence under the carpet in order to highlight the "uniqueness" of the Jewish people's suffering (as some Jewish scholars unfortunately do)? So much for the "logic" of Jonni "Hannover" Hargis.
Hargis
Those "lies" are so "easy" to "shoot down" that Hargis only "shoots" inside his warm and cozy Führerbunker and stifles opposition by censorship even there, right?
Post of Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:28 pm by "KostasL" (a Greek giggler whose contributions to "Revisionism" are essentially limited to infantile clowning and pitiably lame attempts at provocation)
KostasL
Embarrassed is what this fellow should feel indeed, being as he is one of the benighted fanatics who attack historical facts and the memory of murdered human beings with cloud-cuckoo-land fantasies about an impossibly efficient and powerful (and at the same time laughably dumb) conspiracy that, despite the supposed "blunders" that "Revisionists" make a fuss about, pulled off the well–nigh supernatural feat of manipulating or suppressing thousands of documents, training thousands of false incriminating eyewitnesses (apparently chosen for their telepathic capabilities, which would keep them from straying too far from what their colleagues had said even if they had no way of hearing or reading it), coercing or otherwise inducing a couple of thousand indicted perpetrators, especially before West German courts, into falsely incriminating themselves, silencing all potential exonerating witnesses throughout Europe and the rest of the world, fooling governments and other administrative authorities, criminal justice authorities and historians and demographers all over the world (unless, of course, all these people were/are in the pay of said conspiracy) and brainwashing or otherwise inducing millions of non-victims living in Israel, the US and other countries into concealing their origins and identity so it could be claimed that they had been murdered (even though that meant renouncing to compensation claims against the Federal German government – the conspiracy must have paid them better).
But then, conspiracy theorists like this sorry howler never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.
Or maybe some know how full of shit they are and therefore prefer to spout their nonsense in the comfortable company of like-minded buddies only, instead of facing the cold wind of opposition.
We’ll know what category "KostasL" belongs to if and when Gerdes finally dares to link the CODOH clowns to this blog and to the VNN thread Archeological Investigations of Treblinka, as I again challenged him to do in my VNN post # 1760.
I frankly like it when these low-lives mouth off about me in their cesspit, for every time they do I they give me another chance to wipe the floor with their "Revisionist" nonsense.
And it seems they are too stupid to realize that.
I hope they remain that way.
I commented on Gerdes' primitive nonsense in my post # 1760 on the VNN thread Archeological Investigations of Treblinka.
Update, 10.12.2008
A few more "Revisionist" geniuses have opened their big mouths on the aforementioned CODOH thread, so I’ll comment their utterances hereafter.
Read more!
Post of Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:01 pm by “NeilfromBris” (a debutante hollow-head, of maybe just another hollow-head’s sock-puppet)
NfB
I wish I had been on this list when this guy was.
I thank NfB for mentioning that I don't post on CODOH anymore. I'm not allowed to, you know. Moderator Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis had to ban me because neither he nor any other enlightened "Revisionist" could handle my arguments.
NfB
I got some great laughs from reading some of his old messages.
That suggests NfB is just another laughing imbecile. And as he's so eager to talk to me and I'm not allowed to post on CODOH, I suggest he come over to the RODOH forum for some real open debate on the Holocaust (as opposed to the censorship-protected mutual backslapping among "Revisionist" true believers that one sees on CODOH). He can then tell me what’s supposed to have been so laughable about my arguments on those CODOH threads, and explain why, if my arguments were so laughable, Hargis considered it necessary to delete or retain some of my posts (as documented on the RODOH thread A message to Jonnie Hannover Hargis ...).
If he’s not just some other fellow’s sock-puppet, that is.
And if he is not a whimpering coward like Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis.
NfB
I did a search on him and it seems that he contributes to a lot of blogs and chat sites.
Actually I contribute to only two blogs, this one and the Brazilian blog O Holocausto (as can be seen on my profile). And the only "chat sites" I currently post on are RODOH and the VNN thread Archeological Investigations of Treblinka. But the compliment is appreciated.
NfB
I just finished reading something he posted on another group where he says that in addition to the 6 million jews there were also 7.9 million non jews who were also "murdered".
That must be my article 5 million non-Jewish victims? (Part 2), at the end of which I wrote the following:
20. Sum total
According to the above estimates (rounded up or down to the nearest thousand), the total number of non-Jews who perished through criminal violence by Nazi Germany and its allies during World War II, i.e. of non-Jews who died at the hands of the Nazi “killing apparatus” as defined in Part 1 of this article, is the following:
Soviet Union 5,030,000 to 5,800,000
Poland 1,000,000
Czechoslovakia 33,000
Yugoslavia 260,000
Romania 51,000
Hungary 28,000
Greece 150,000
Italy 76,000
France 147,000
Belgium 17,000
Netherlands 75,000
Norway 2,000
Denmark 1,000
Austria 16,000
Germany 245,000
Total 7,131,000 to 7,901,000
Even the lowest of these totals (7,131,000) exceeds by far not only the 5 million non-Jewish victims “invented” by Simon Wiesenthal but also the highest estimates (around 6 million) of Jews who died at the hands of the Nazi “killing apparatus”. If we consider Nick Terry’s minimum estimate of ca. 5,364,000 Jewish victims of Nazi persecution, the minimum total of people who died at the hands of the Nazi “killing apparatus” would be 5,364,000 + 7,131,000 = 12,495,000, thereof 43 % Jews and 57 % non-Jews.
NfB doesn’t seem to be a very attentive reader. But I’m glad he visits this blog, for this means he will also read the present article and thus be informed about my invitation to open debate on RODOH.
I'm starting to wonder if there was anyone left alive in Europe at the end of the war. Confused
A confused person is what NfB seems to be indeed, and also one not interested in historical fact and notoriously ignorant. Maybe he should start by informing himself about the population of the European countries mentioned in my above-quoted list during World War II. Next he may take a look at World War II casualties in those countries, wherein the non-combatants who perished through criminal violence by Nazi Germany and its allies are included.
Post of Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:54 pm by Jonni "Hannover" Hargis (who must have read my RODOH thread Hey Bankdraft, what kind of a slimy @sshole are you … and therefore be in need of venting his anger at having once more been shown for the cowardly liar he is)
Hargis
People like Muehlenkamp are in denial of science, logic, and rational thought processes.
Actually people like me apply science, logic and rational thought processes without making a fuss about it, whereas bigmouthed charlatans like Hargis throw these terms around but know as much about what either implies as a pig does about Sunday – awareness of which is probably the reason, or one of the reasons, why Hargis never leaves his warm and cozy online Führerbunker and ventures into the real world of open debate.
Hargis
We have his debunked claims on record here, he's a classic example of the irrational 'holocaust' liars in general.
Yeah, sure. See the aforementioned thread on how (i.e. by censoring posts and eventually banning the poster) this "debunking" was done. Also of interest in this respect is the RODOH thread The Memory Hole Festival goes on ....
Hargis
13.9 million absurdly claimed and they cannot even show us ONE mass grave as alleged, not ONE.
First of all, it's not 13.9 million, as I prefer the lower range of estimates on the number of Jewish victims of Nazi mass murder. According to my calculations quoted above, it's at least 12.5 million, thereof 43 % Jews and 57 % non-Jews.
Second, it's amusing to see Hargis emulating the "not ONE" – rhetoric of his fellow coward, liar and obnoxious fish-wife Greg Gerdes.
And third, one only sees no mass graves if one sticks one's head in the sand, ostrich-style, like the characters on this caricature by Dr. Seuss :
If Hargis ever took his head out of the sand (or stopped lying), he would realize (or acknowledge) that one can find quite a few investigators’ or archaeologists’ descriptions of Nazi-made mass graves and photos of such mass graves and of dead bodies of Nazi murder victims even on the web these days. Regarding civilians and prisoners of war bumped off or made to die of starvation and disease in Nazi-occupied territory, see for instance Nick's article Mass Graves in the Polesie, Sergey’s article That's why it is denial, not revisionism. Part II: Deniers and the graves of Marijampole and my articles Neither the Soviets nor the Poles have found any mass graves with even only a few thousand bodies … , Carlo Mattogno on Belzec Archaeological Research, Polish investigations of the Treblinka killing site were a complete failure …, Archaelogical Research at Chelmno and Mass Graves at Sobibor, as well as my RODOH threads Busk, My Trip to Sobibor, Mass Graves and Dead Bodies and Pictures of German Occupation in the USSR. Regarding the siege of Leningrad, Hargis should pay a visit to, say, the Piskaryov Memorial Cemetery in St. Petersburg, Russia.
Hargis
Jewish supremacists made up a laughable story and now they are left trying to defend the impossible. Imagine what they are feeling.
So the "Jewish supremacists" of Hargis' fantasies are supposed to have invented non-Jewish victims of Nazi criminal violence in numbers that, even by the lowest of my counts, largely exceed even the highest estimates on the number of Jewish victims of the Nazi genocide, instead of trying to sweep non-Jewish victims of Nazi criminal violence under the carpet in order to highlight the "uniqueness" of the Jewish people's suffering (as some Jewish scholars unfortunately do)? So much for the "logic" of Jonni "Hannover" Hargis.
Hargis
Revisionists are just the messengers, the ease in which the 'holocaust' lies are shot down is the message.
Those "lies" are so "easy" to "shoot down" that Hargis only "shoots" inside his warm and cozy Führerbunker and stifles opposition by censorship even there, right?
Post of Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:28 pm by "KostasL" (a Greek giggler whose contributions to "Revisionism" are essentially limited to infantile clowning and pitiably lame attempts at provocation)
KostasL
Well, defending the impossible is not so bad when you are defending Truth, Justice, Freedom, Humanity, even if the odds are overwhelmingly against you. Smile
But if you are attacking Truth, Justice, Freedom and Humanity then how are you supposed to feel ? Embarassed
Embarrassed is what this fellow should feel indeed, being as he is one of the benighted fanatics who attack historical facts and the memory of murdered human beings with cloud-cuckoo-land fantasies about an impossibly efficient and powerful (and at the same time laughably dumb) conspiracy that, despite the supposed "blunders" that "Revisionists" make a fuss about, pulled off the well–nigh supernatural feat of manipulating or suppressing thousands of documents, training thousands of false incriminating eyewitnesses (apparently chosen for their telepathic capabilities, which would keep them from straying too far from what their colleagues had said even if they had no way of hearing or reading it), coercing or otherwise inducing a couple of thousand indicted perpetrators, especially before West German courts, into falsely incriminating themselves, silencing all potential exonerating witnesses throughout Europe and the rest of the world, fooling governments and other administrative authorities, criminal justice authorities and historians and demographers all over the world (unless, of course, all these people were/are in the pay of said conspiracy) and brainwashing or otherwise inducing millions of non-victims living in Israel, the US and other countries into concealing their origins and identity so it could be claimed that they had been murdered (even though that meant renouncing to compensation claims against the Federal German government – the conspiracy must have paid them better).
But then, conspiracy theorists like this sorry howler never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.
Or maybe some know how full of shit they are and therefore prefer to spout their nonsense in the comfortable company of like-minded buddies only, instead of facing the cold wind of opposition.
We’ll know what category "KostasL" belongs to if and when Gerdes finally dares to link the CODOH clowns to this blog and to the VNN thread Archeological Investigations of Treblinka, as I again challenged him to do in my VNN post # 1760.
I frankly like it when these low-lives mouth off about me in their cesspit, for every time they do I they give me another chance to wipe the floor with their "Revisionist" nonsense.
And it seems they are too stupid to realize that.
I hope they remain that way.
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