"The Climate Swindle vs. the Holo-Lie"

Some RODOH Holocaust deniers' reactions to the latest manufactured "Climategate" nontroversy are interesting. Here's the old Nazi-Canadian Wilfried Heink:

Similarities between the "Great Climate Swindle" and the "Great Holo-Lie", taken from "timesonline":

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936289.ece

"[T]his weekend it emerged that the unit has thrown away much of the data. Tucked away on its website is this statement: "Data storage availability in the 1980s meant that we were not able to keep the multiple sources for some sites ... We, therefore, do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (ie, quality controlled and homogenised) data." (True for "The Holocaust", as well, besides, archives are still locked)

If true, it is extraordinary. It means that the data on which a large part of the world's understanding of ("The Holocaust") climate change is based can never be revisited or checked. Pielke said: "Can this be serious? It is now impossible to create a (real Holo body count) new temperature index from scratch. [The unit] is basically saying, 'Trust us'." (Are you listening, nickterry?)

WHERE does this leave the ("Holocaust") climate debate? While the overwhelming belief of scientists is that ("The Holocaust" happened) the world is getting warmer and that (Germans) humanity (are) is responsible, sceptical voices are increasing.

Lord Lawson, the Tory former chancellor, announced last week the creation of the Global Warming Policy Foundation, a think tank, to "bring reason, integrity and balance to a debate that has become seriously unbalanced, irrationally alarmist, and all too often depressingly intolerant" (this is yet to happen re. "The Holocaust").

Lawson said: "("The Holocaust") Climate change is not being properly debated because all the political parties are on the same side, and there is an intolerance towards anybody who wants to debate it. It has turned ("The Holocaust") climate change from being a political issue into a secular religion."

But, the time will come when "The Holocaust" will also fall by the wayside.
Arme True Believers, armes Deutschland.

Then there's this, by another lemming:

Nick Terry always likened Global Warming Denial to HD when he was trying to tar us all with the brush of lunacy and conspiracy mania. I think GWD and HD sit together very comfortably. I say screw the totalitarian liberals and their desperate desire to control thought.

Yikes!

Update: there's more!

Nick, in case you haven't noticed, 'public policy' is determined by special interests, mainly those of an an international banking elite. You now want the same people to create a new market resulting from cap-and-trade which they can use to extract a new tax from the gullible workslave, and you want extra powers for governments to impose their authority and tax raising powers over a rapidly collapsing middle class in the name of a new global panic (one that will make the war on terrah look pretty tame once it gets rolling).

If a scientific consensus does exist, it exists for the same reason that a consensus over the Holocaust exists in the hallowed corridors of academic historiography. If we as a people, a nation, are to accept that man-caused GW exists then we need a proper national debate on this subject, since the outcome of that debate will fundamentally change the future trajectory of public policy for generations and should transform the economic and material basis of our national existence. Such decisions should not be made behind closed doors. Such decisions should not be made by corrupt, self-interested academic groupings that exist and thrive thanks to the funding they receive for affirming a pre-determined hypothesis and that pursue active policies of concelament, dissemination, and underhand conflict tactics against their enemies.

A real debate on Global warming and its consequences and its implications for public policy has not been had. Whether you could awake the masses sufficiently to watch and join such a debate is of course unlikely given that they have been controlled and dumbed down by a media that has little interest in promoting free thought.

Your Global warming paradigm, along with your war on terrah paradigm, and your 'what is in the interest of the bankers, is in the interests of us all' paradigm, are all part and parcel of a manufactured consent perpetuated by a power structure at the apex of which stands the truth of truth, the holy of holies, your sacred Holocaust religion, and the good war that was fought in its name.

I'm happy to embrace the idea of MMGW, but a debate about it must be had in the open, and in a climate of intellectual honesty. MMGW is fast on its way to becoming another article of faith that is only questioned by 'social pariahs', 'sociopaths', 'conspiracy theorists', and perhaps eventually 'the kind of people that deny the Holocaust' (oh sin of sins). Real debate is closed down. There is no open society here, but hegemonic 'truths' force fed to us through power structures that have agendas very much at odds with the creation of thriving, open societies. I object to the methods and the process, not the conclusions (which are not settled yet, since a real debate has not been had). But you wouldn't understand that since you have positioned yourself at the centre of faith promotion in the most filthy of all businesses - Holotale promotion, and you believe that 'deniers' and 'conspiracy therorists' should be silenced and those that 'know' the truth should be allowed to impose their will on society in the name of a higher 'good'. Such is the stuff that Totalitarian Liberalism is made of.

Update 2: Now compare this to a "mainstream" AGW denier's rhetoric (courtesy of Tim Lambert):

Most of the environmental movement is composed of innocent Gaianists, but not all of it. There's a hard core that's sort of a zombie remnant of Soviet psyops. Their goals are political: trash capitalism, resurrect socialism from the dustbin of history. They're actually more like what I have elsewhere called a prospiracy, having lost their proper conspiratorial armature when KGB Department V folded up in 1992. There aren't a lot of them, but they're very, very good at co-opting others and they drive the Gaianists like sheep.

Update 3: and now the CODOH deniers chime in!

Climatecaust or Hologate, that is the question?

by Kiwichap » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:29 am

I have to laugh at how much the jack boot sale of global warming inversely resembles the hoax. This from Katherine Goldstein; Huffington Post.

"The verdict on global warming is in -- it's caused by humans and it is happening and nothing in the emails remotely challenges that.... we thought we should set the record straight... Everything else is "rumors, lies and insinuations."

Shades of Deborah Lipstadt - 'no debate'. There is no climategate and there is no 'hide the decline'. Don't be a climate denier. There is not enough time to explain it to you. The ocean will be lapping at your front door if you don't do what we $$$ay...

I hear this spirit of speech every day now, It's everywhere; and it's increasing. Self puffed-up, they think they can spit any sort of BS at us and we will just do what they say. We are not worthy to contribute data because we are deniers of the scam.

The blurb rants hypocritically about a hack, when we all know it was a LEAK (BBC).

Three cheers for the leaker. Some folk are loyal to a higher law, where TRUTH is more important than BS legalise fiction, and it pays better at the end of the day. Katherine Goldstein doesn't understand that. Am I surprised?

Then:

by Halo » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:03 am
Thanks for this thread kiwi. Thought awhile if I should start one on the climate lie thats collapsing right now in front of our eyes...

It´s not as if the people wouldn´t have been warned of the things to come, 911, Afghanistan, Iraq, WMDs, USS Liberty... the list of collapsed (-ing) lies is so long. I can´t understand why so many are so stupid.

In case someone missed it (I know that in the US there has been some newscoverage on this topic in the mainstream media, contrasting europe- where this is not mentioned at all - at least I havent come across any report on the falsified e-mails or the collapsing man-made climate change lie except for a short mention from the BBC, who tried to spin it into a hacker scandal and internet security issue lol).

In general I might use the opportunity to hint the kind reader to a great website:

www.whatreallyhappened.com

This is really one of my most frequented websites on the web, covering climategate, obama, 911, up to "dum dum portrayal of evil"- this site has no taboos and it´s really an awesome source to inform oneself.

Thanks Kiwi for the thread

Yet another H.E.A.R.T. attack (yawn)

[Update: Lisciotto and Webb have also created several fake impersonating blogs, click here to learn more.]

Chris Webb has a ridiculous piece up on his site, "Holocaust Remembrance. A time to memorialize, debate, debunk or debauch?" ( http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/essays&editorials/memorial-debunk-debate-debauged.html ) by a certain "Dr. Martin Friedhaus". Google search has nothing on this alleged "Dr.". Whether he is real, or a creation of Chris Webb or his flunkies, the article is a hoot. It is painfully obvious that it is aimed at us.

Some quotes:

However we've also witnessed the evolution of the revisionist counter movement or "Holocaust Revisionist Debunkers" and if you think the Holocaust Deniers seemed kooky or paranoid in their methods, then the "Debunkers" can be simply downright psychotic in the way they approach the debate.

[...]

It is believed that some of these Holocaust Controversy type blogs are in fact supported by Neo-Nazi organizations with the sole purpose of subterfuge, false propaganda and personal attacks.

[...]

Are the "Debunkers" any different than the "Deniers" because they appear to take the moral high ground?

"Friedhaus" also cites Webb's article "Holocaust Denial & Debunking" ( http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/essays&editorials/deniers&debunkers.html ), which contains assertions such as:

In addition, those self proclaimed “Debunkers” of revisionist theories are in many ways no different than the Deniers themselves. Most are only seeking a conflict or debate to engage in, and debunking revisionism affords them some sort of “moral high ground” to do it from.

[...]

And no matter what – the Deniers views are unlikely to change and does the world doesn’t really need “Noble-Debunkers” to keep the rest of us safe from such idiotic theories or treatises.

[...]

"What is Holocaust Denial & Debunking Good for?”

“Absolutely nothing!”

So the alleged "Dr. Friedhaus" and Chris Webb trash the work of such debunkers as Deborah Lipstadt, Michael Shermer, Robert Jan van Pelt, the Holocaust History Project team and many, many other noble people - all in order to smear us.

The problem is that both Webb and his flunkie (or alter ego) "Friedhaus" have neither moral nor intellectual standing to pass such judgments.

Sure, Webb's cheap psychologizing is funny in light of him allowing "Friedhaus" to call him a "Renowned Holocaust Scholar Chris Webb" in the article. This shows only that Webb has a huge ego, but ask any Holocaust historian, and (s)he will not know anything about any "renown Holocaust scholar Chris Webb".

Let's not forget who Chris Webb is. He is the guy who was dumb enough to introduce to the Action Reinhard Camps site team several forged documents. The documents were forged by "Andy Schmidt", Webb's shadowy pal and co-author (go to the Wiener Library online catalog and type in "Webb" as the author).

After the forgeries had been exposed, Webb, using his position as the registrar of the deathcamps.org domain name, seized the control over the ARC site and single-handedly purged everyone opposed to his methods, which included most of the original ARC team, including two ARC founders. Since then he has been falsely claiming that the copyright on the ARC materials belongs to him. How so? Well, apparently because he owns the domain name.

At ARC/H.E.A.R.T. sites/blogs you will see notices claiming that the copyright information can be verified through WHOIS service. The problem is that it is another blatant lie: WHOIS service only shows the owner of the domain name. It cannot, in principle, be used to establish the copyright-owner of the materials on any site.

Not being content with the Stalinist purge of the opposition, Webb, with the help of his faithful thug Carmelo Lisciotto, began to falsify the materials on the deathcamps.org site. Just one small example will suffice. While an ARC member, I authored a page about Babiy Yar Sonderkommandos, using mostly Russian-language sources and several English-language publications. Here's the archived version, where I am listed as a source. And if you go to to the current version at http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/bywitnesses.html you will see Chris Webb as a source instead of me.

There are dozens of such "small" falsifications all over the deathcamps.org, including the history page, in which now only Chris Webb is mentioned by name as the website creator (the actual webdesign work was always done by the ARC founder Michael Peters; Webb was merely a secretary and one of the contributors). And this behavior again can only be described as Stalinist. First purge the opposition, then falsify history and destroy memory. I will not be surprised if after reading this, Webb will tell Lisciotto to further modify the record here and there.

Many ARC members became victims of such an approach. John Ulrich Poulsen had a very informative page about the slogans like "Arbeit macht frei" on the gates of concentration camps. It was a very popular part of the site, getting most of the hits. After Poulsen demanded for it to be removed (after months of trying to ask nicely), the following notice appeared instead of the site ( http://www.deathcamps.org/websites/JUPremoved.html ):

John Ulrich Poulsen "Photos of Gates and Mottos Pages" deemed inappropriate and removed from the Genuine Action Reinhard Camps website.

Due to a high volume of emails we've received stating the John Ulrich Poulsen Concentration Gates & Mottos pages offer no value to the viewer other than to symbolize and to glorify the Nazi Concentration camp system, the ARC Trustees have revisited the Independent websites and determined that the John Ulrich Poulsen pages in fact maintain no relevant connection to the events of Action Reinhard. Furthermore, the ARC Trustees’ concede that views expressed by visitors regarding these pages can be understandably & reasonably construed. Henceforth, in keeping with the spirit of memorializing the victims and survivors of the Holocaust, any promotion of such views are deemed inappropriate.

The John Ulrich Poulsen pages have been removed from the genuine ARC website.

We would also like to take this time to apologize to anyone who may have been offended by the John Ulrich Poulsen pages. -ARC

In fact, ARC never ever got a "high volume" of any e-mails, much less the ones complaining about Poulsen's popular site. But Webb and Lisciotto have a very poor fantasy, so when they removed Michael Peters' artwork from the site, they gave the same false reason for the removal ( http://deathcamps.org/websites/removed.html ):

Michael Peters Holocaust Artwork Removed due to complaints regarding content and quality
Due to the overwhelming volume of complaints we've received regarding the Michael Peters Holocaust Art pages as "being in poor taste". The ARC trustees have agreed to comply with the wishes of our supporters, and those that refer to the genuine ARC website www.deathcamps.org as a high quality digital reference and resource on the Aktion Reinhard Camps.
We would also like to take this time to apologize to anyone who may have been offended by the Michael Peters art.

-ARC

When Konrad Wawryn, author of several graphic reconstructions, demanded that his work be removed from the site, Webb removed Wawryn's work. Instead, he added this note:

Visual Dramatization removed for inaccuracies.

This visual work had been accepted as accurate by Webb just several months earlier.

After raping the deathcamps.org site, Chris Webb and Carmelo Lisciotto went on to create their own hilariously inaccurate and sloppy holocaustresearchproject.org. Unfortunately for them, they've been banned even by Wikipedia after Carmelo spammed the links to their "resource" all over wiki.

"Friedhaus" has also something to say about our alleged profanity:

In my own experience most of the "Debunking" tends to occur on conspiracy websites or "cheesy blogs" which specifically attempt to design there look and feel with an intent to perpetrate an air of credibility, and scholarship. They do this by associating themselves with respected Internet sites via web-links or reference quotes, despite the fact they often intersperse these links among paragraphs of profanity, name calling, threats and disparaging comments.

The problem is, the H.E.A.R.T. webmaster and thug Carmelo Lisciotto is one of the most profane people I've ever known. I will not repeat the messages he left at the blog and sent by e-mail, as they're truly vile. I will simply link here and here. Judging by his language, Lisciotto is also a big homophobe. I think such potty-mouthed bigots should stay away from the topic of the Nazi mass murder for obvious reasons.

"Friedhaus", if he is a real person (which I doubt) is knowingly associating himself with Webb and Lisciotto and thus has no standing whatsoever to criticize anyone.

How these people, who have no honor and no shame, can be moralizing about anything? How can the person who does not care about the truth, the copyright-thief, forgery-enabler and friend of vile bigots be trusted with educating the public about the Holocaust? It's a travesty.